Totally Loosing Perspective on Al-Queda

Started by Queequeg, May 09, 2009, 01:20:27 PM

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Habbaku

#30
May 10, 2009, 04:02:48 PM
Your interpretation has him stating the obvious, in other words.  I don't think that was his point at all.
The medievals were only too right in taking nolo episcopari as the best reason a man could give to others for making him a bishop. Give me a king whose chief interest in life is stamps, railways, or race-horses; and who has the power to sack his Vizier (or whatever you care to call him) if he does not like the cut of his trousers.

Government is an abstract noun meaning the art and process of governing and it should be an offence to write it with a capital G or so as to refer to people.
-J. R. R. Tolkien

garbon

#31
May 10, 2009, 04:04:33 PM
I think it was his point.  After all, Neil made it seem like Americans deserved it.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."

I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Habbaku

#32
May 10, 2009, 04:07:37 PM
If they were traveling on ships transporting munitions across the Atlantic, they may not have "deserved" it, but the end-result is not something that should surprise anyone.
The medievals were only too right in taking nolo episcopari as the best reason a man could give to others for making him a bishop. Give me a king whose chief interest in life is stamps, railways, or race-horses; and who has the power to sack his Vizier (or whatever you care to call him) if he does not like the cut of his trousers.

Government is an abstract noun meaning the art and process of governing and it should be an offence to write it with a capital G or so as to refer to people.
-J. R. R. Tolkien

garbon

#33
May 10, 2009, 04:08:40 PM
If they owned a ship chillin' in a harbor...
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."

I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Neil

#34
May 10, 2009, 04:19:15 PM
Quote from: Strix on May 10, 2009, 02:50:30 PM
Quote from: Neil on May 10, 2009, 09:57:03 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 10, 2009, 09:55:23 AM
Americans are very sensitive when their civilians get hurt. See: U-Boat warfare in WW1. :(
Those civilians had it coming.  Anybody who sails to Europe on a ship full of weapons, during a war where submarines are sinking everything they see, deserves a Darwin Award.

I suppose we should ignore all the civilian ships sunk off the coasts of North Carolina and New Jersey. Hell, the Germans sank a lighthouse and some light ships.
Good.  They had it coming for starting a war with Germany.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

grumbler

#35
May 10, 2009, 04:20:04 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 10, 2009, 04:04:33 PM
I think it was his point.  After all, Neil made it seem like Americans deserved it.
Well, they took passage on an auxillary warship which the Germans pointed out to them (in newspaper ads, by name) would be sunk.  Not sure you could successfully argue that they deserved death for this kind of stupidity, but it certainly introduces the idea that the decision-makers responsible for taking innocents aboard the ship are not free of some onus for their deaths.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

grumbler

#36
May 10, 2009, 04:24:31 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 10, 2009, 03:51:55 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on May 10, 2009, 03:47:42 PM
You may wish to re-read what I posted, though I suspect you are being deliberately obtuse because you have been exposed in your error.  My statement is that the ship you referred to (U-151) wasn't put on active duty until after the USA was at war, not that the Germans only started attacking the US coastline until after the declaration.

I would say I am not sure why you'd deliberately misinterpret what I posted, but know very well why you did.
Your statement was that U151 went on active duty after the US was in the war.  That's either completely unrelated to what Strix posted or you assumed (incorrectly) that Strix was pointing out other examples of Uboats attacking the US before the declaration of war.
To be fair, what Strix posted was unrelated to Neil's reference to the Luisitania.  The US got upset enough over those civilian deaths that the balance was tipped towards going to war, and the resumption of unrestricted submarine warfare in 1917 was the proximate cause for the declaration itself.

What was the US going to do over the exploits of U-151?  Double-declare war?
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Ed Anger

#37
May 10, 2009, 04:25:02 PM
Double secret probation
Stay Alive...Let the Man Drive

Admiral Yi

#38
May 10, 2009, 04:27:48 PM
Quote from: grumbler on May 10, 2009, 04:24:31 PM
To be fair, what Strix posted was unrelated to Neil's reference to the Luisitania.  The US got upset enough over those civilian deaths that the balance was tipped towards going to war, and the resumption of unrestricted submarine warfare in 1917 was the proximate cause for the declaration itself.

What was the US going to do over the exploits of U-151?  Double-declare war?
Agreed.  Strix was working more on the theme of those damn dirty Krauts were really bad people.

grumbler

#39
May 10, 2009, 04:34:19 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 10, 2009, 04:27:48 PM
Agreed.  Strix was working more on the theme of those damn dirty Krauts were really bad people.
In groups, yes, they were (in that they seemed willing to do a lot of pretty questionable things if they were ordered to do so for "Garmany's benefit").  Once removed from their military units, they seemed to be okay - they couldn't do much to benefit Germany, and certainly killing random people wouldn't help their cause.  I am not sure I would argue the same for AQ types, who don't always work in groups and follow a chain of command anyway, and who feel that they can fulfill their mission just by killing random people.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Strix

#40
May 10, 2009, 05:10:19 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on May 10, 2009, 03:47:42 PM
You may wish to re-read what I posted, though I suspect you are being deliberately obtuse because you have been exposed in your error.  My statement is that the ship you referred to (U-151) wasn't put on active duty until after the USA was at war, not that the Germans only started attacking the US coastline until after the declaration.

I would say I am not sure why you'd deliberately misinterpret what I posted, but know very well why you did.

I made no error. It would seem to be that you misunderstood what I posted instead.

The discussion concerned the Germans killing US citizens. I just pointed out that the Germans killed more than just those placing themselves in harm's way by crossing the Atlantic.
"I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left." - Margaret Thatcher

Neil

#41
May 10, 2009, 05:31:41 PM
Quote from: Strix on May 10, 2009, 05:10:19 PM
The discussion concerned the Germans killing US citizens. I just pointed out that the Germans killed more than just those placing themselves in harm's way by crossing the Atlantic.
Indeed.  Those citizens placed themselves in harm's way by making war against Germany.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.
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