Calling Languish parents: Why did you decide to have children?

[katmai]

And here is that wise ass!

So, I take it the overall conclusion is that lawyers should not have children? 

Some wise-ass is bound to remove "defense" ... 

[Maximus]

Would I recommend to single women to not have a child on their own because statistically life will be much harder for her and the child? Yes.

There are all kinds of reasons why having children may be more difficult for one person than another. Generally speaking, just because something is difficult doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be done.

Nobody who's having a child can guarantee that they won't become a single parent at some point.  You could have a child today and your spouse could be killed in a car wreck tomorrow.

This is true, but I'm not sure what it has to do with the post you quoted.

[dps]

So, I take it the overall conclusion is that defense lawyers should not have children? 

Some wise-ass is bound to remove "defense" ... 

Perhaps substitute the term, "Polish"?

[Razgovory]

What do you suppose the risks are of being born into an Eastern European dictatorship?

It depends - are the potential parents educated, running own business and well off? Then yes, sure. Are they human refuse living off the state's dole? Then probably not (unfortunately they did and we still see problems from it with entire regions being plagued by structural unemployment).

Ah, so nobody should have been born in Eastern Europe during communist era?  That seems fine.

[alfred russel]

I'm late to respond to such an insightful thread, but wouldn't it be boring and less fufilling otherwise? What are you going to do with all your personal time--I think there reaches a point where going to bars every weekend starts to get a bit empty.

[ulmont]

I think there reaches a point where going to bars every weekend starts to get a bit empty.

Heresy.

[Valmy]

I don't think anyone would doubt that some people are born with better prospects than others. After all, we are not living in Lake Wobegon, the town "where all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the children are above average." 

A humble people with much to be humble about.

[merithyn]

Which also brings us back to the question asked of me in the beginning - why do I decide not to have children - because I am not convinced I would have personality traits that would make me a good parent. The fact that people I consider my lessers have children is not a good enough cause for me to lower my standards.

Since this is such a subjective view of child rearing (who is "better" than whom), it's rendered pointless. Those you consider your lessers could easily be considered your superiors by others using a different set of guidelines.

It sounds like you're asking us parents to justify our right to breed based on your personal criteria, which is asinine. I wouldn't trim my toenails based on your - or anyone else's - personal criteria, so why would anyone make any kind of important decision based on that?

[crazy canuck]

Which also brings us back to the question asked of me in the beginning - why do I decide not to have children - because I am not convinced I would have personality traits that would make me a good parent. The fact that people I consider my lessers have children is not a good enough cause for me to lower my standards.

Since this is such a subjective view of child rearing (who is "better" than whom), it's rendered pointless. Those you consider your lessers could easily be considered your superiors by others using a different set of guidelines.

It sounds like you're asking us parents to justify our right to breed based on your personal criteria, which is asinine. I wouldn't trim my toenails based on your - or anyone else's - personal criteria, so why would anyone make any kind of important decision based on that?

Don't forget you are talking to the guy who believes nonexistence is better than existance.  Except for him of course.  He is Polish.

[Razgovory]

Does anyone still disagree with my diagnosis that he's a narcissist?

[Valdemar]

Such concerns only apply in extreme circumstances, where for whatever reasons having a kid is likely to result in that kid living a miserable existence - such as extreme poverty unlikely to change.

I disagree - what about a risk of hereditary diseases. Or parents having bad personality traits. Or having already a couple of children and the fact that they won't have as much time to dedicate to their upbringing if they bring a new one into the fold. Or living in a deteriorating relationship and hoping selfishly that bringing a child into this mess will help them "rekindle" the love. All such people should seriously consider if they should have children.

If you extrapolate a bit on that, does that mean you are advocating prescreening of foetus for undiserable effects, such as hereditary diseases? In essence advocating the whole "designer baby" trend?

Apart from the moral and ethical unpleasantness of that line of thought and the obvious historic spectre it raises it would be scientifically stupid to do

The whole idea of natual procreation is diversity, that includes hereditary diseases. Bear in mind that many of these diseases are thought to be genetic mutations in reaction to some external or internal thread thousands of years ago, including violent microbes. By designing off all diseases you may end up killing immunity for something that could turn out to be vital.

V

[Valdemar]

-Children are born to parents of limited means all the time, and turn out great.  The situations where parents are so impoverished that it lears to long-lasting suffering for the child are extremely limited.

-Stability of marriages.  Lots of children born to less than stable relationships, or single parents, who turn out fine.  For the relationship to be so unstable, and so violent, that the child is better off not being born is extremely limited.

citation needed

Barrister, July 4, 2012

Really just personal experience.  Take my brother's high school best friend.  Raised by a welfare single mom, who then passed away after her son graduated high school.  I'm pretty sure Marti would say he'd be better off not having been born, but he's leading a very productive life with a stable job and a loving wife (and who has been pretty much adopted into our wider family, which is why I know how well he is doing).

Researchers have consistently found that children born outside marriage face elevated risks of falling into poverty, failing in school or suffering emotional and behavioral problems: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/18/us/for-women-under-30-most-births-occur-outside-marriage.html

I have also read that the upward mobility rate (not to mention incarceration, graduation rates, etc.) of kids born into poverty is also significant retarded. Sure, we like to remember a few exceptions from our personal networks, but the reality is not so uplifting for children in troubled/single-parent households.

That may be true on your side of the pond, but i recently read that effectively that was not the case in EU. I cant find the article, but basically it states that unlike common belief it is very hard to reverse fortunes in God's own nation (US) while it is very much possible in and under semi socialistic EU regimes.

V

[The Brain]

In Sweden it's dead easy to move from the bottom 20% to the top 20%. Only problem (and the reason it's so easy) is that it means very little in real money.

[Valdemar]

In Sweden it's dead easy to move from the bottom 20% to the top 20%. Only problem (and the reason it's so easy) is that it means very little in real money.

Yes indeed, that is the challenge, however in context of this text it means that being in the lower 20% shouldn't stop you from having kids..

V

[Martinus]

I'm late to respond to such an insightful thread, but wouldn't it be boring and less fufilling otherwise? What are you going to do with all your personal time--I think there reaches a point where going to bars every weekend starts to get a bit empty.

So you admit that people have children to fill their empty lives with something to do?

I declare my victory of the thread.

And for the record I don't really go to bars anymore.