Calling Languish parents: Why did you decide to have children?

[Malthus]

-Children are born to parents of limited means all the time, and turn out great.  The situations where parents are so impoverished that it lears to long-lasting suffering for the child are extremely limited.

-Stability of marriages.  Lots of children born to less than stable relationships, or single parents, who turn out fine.  For the relationship to be so unstable, and so violent, that the child is better off not being born is extremely limited.

citation needed

Barrister, July 4, 2012

Really just personal experience.  Take my brother's high school best friend.  Raised by a welfare single mom, who then passed away after her son graduated high school.  I'm pretty sure Marti would say he'd be better off not having been born, but he's leading a very productive life with a stable job and a loving wife (and who has been pretty much adopted into our wider family, which is why I know how well he is doing).

Researchers have consistently found that children born outside marriage face elevated risks of falling into poverty, failing in school or suffering emotional and behavioral problems: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/18/us/for-women-under-30-most-births-occur-outside-marriage.html

I have also read that the upward mobility rate (not to mention incarceration, graduation rates, etc.) of kids born into poverty is also significant retarded. Sure, we like to remember a few exceptions from our personal networks, but the reality is not so uplifting for children in troubled/single-parent households.

I don't think anyone would doubt that some people are born with better prospects than others. After all, we are not living in Lake Wobegon, the town "where all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the children are above average." 

The issue is at what point are people born with such bad prospects that they would be, on an objective analysis, better off not having been born at all. I do not think being born to a single mom qualifies for that.

[Barrister]

Researchers have consistently found that children born outside marriage face elevated risks of falling into poverty, failing in school or suffering emotional and behavioral problems: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/18/us/for-women-under-30-most-births-occur-outside-marriage.html

I have also read that the upward mobility rate (not to mention incarceration, graduation rates, etc.) of kids born into poverty is also significant retarded. Sure, we like to remember a few exceptions from our personal networks, but the reality is not so uplifting for children in troubled/single-parent households.

Having an "elevated risk of falling into poverty, failing in school or suffering emotional or behavioural problems" is a long, long way from being better off not having been born.

You understand of course that the bread and butter of my work is dealing with society's less fortunate.  They have a lot of problems, but most of them are trying to do right by themselves and the world, and probably less than 5 have I ever felt that the world would simply be better off if they never existed.

[The Brain]

Do they have to sit through It's A Wonderful Life in gaol?

[Phillip V]

The issue is at what point are people born with such bad prospects that they would be, on an objective analysis, better off not having been born at all. I do not think being born to a single mom qualifies for that.

Well I can never be objective when the question is: Should a person not have been born at all?
My answer is an unequivocal "NO". We have a duty to welcome and take care of children, be they retarded or crazy.

Would I recommend to single women to not have a child on their own because statistically life will be much harder for her and the child? Yes.

[The Brain]

You recommend black people that they shouldn't have kids?

[Razgovory]

Researchers have consistently found that children born outside marriage face elevated risks of falling into poverty, failing in school or suffering emotional and behavioral problems: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/18/us/for-women-under-30-most-births-occur-outside-marriage.html

I have also read that the upward mobility rate (not to mention incarceration, graduation rates, etc.) of kids born into poverty is also significant retarded. Sure, we like to remember a few exceptions from our personal networks, but the reality is not so uplifting for children in troubled/single-parent households.

Having an "elevated risk of falling into poverty, failing in school or suffering emotional or behavioural problems" is a long, long way from being better off not having been born.

You understand of course that the bread and butter of my work is dealing with society's less fortunate.  They have a lot of problems, but most of them are trying to do right by themselves and the world, and probably less than 5 have I ever felt that the world would simply be better off if they never existed.

What do those less then five do?

[Phillip V]

You recommend black people that they shouldn't have kids?

For many of them: yes.

Unfortunately, middle class whites are now following in their sexual/familial footsteps.

[Phillip V]

You understand of course that the bread and butter of my work is dealing with society's less fortunate.  They have a lot of problems, but most of them are trying to do right by themselves and the world, and probably less than 5 have I ever felt that the world would simply be better off if they never existed.

I don't know enough of your work or specific clients, but most people indeed have "good intentions". Just usually their actions do not follow their talk, or they fail to follow through to the end.

Thus, I usually recommend 3 months of safe and noncommittal interaction/observation before escalating your personal and professional relationships. You won't be mistaken by first impressions, and we will all be happier.

[Martinus]

-Children are born to parents of limited means all the time, and turn out great.  The situations where parents are so impoverished that it lears to long-lasting suffering for the child are extremely limited.

-Stability of marriages.  Lots of children born to less than stable relationships, or single parents, who turn out fine.  For the relationship to be so unstable, and so violent, that the child is better off not being born is extremely limited.

citation needed

Barrister, July 4, 2012

Really just personal experience.  Take my brother's high school best friend.  Raised by a welfare single mom, who then passed away after her son graduated high school.  I'm pretty sure Marti would say he'd be better off not having been born, but he's leading a very productive life with a stable job and a loving wife (and who has been pretty much adopted into our wider family, which is why I know how well he is doing).

This is anecdotal. Why does anecdotal evidence almost never trump up statistics, except when it comes to "gee, these shitty people had a kid who turned out pretty much fine"?

[Maximus]

Would I recommend to single women to not have a child on their own because statistically life will be much harder for her and the child? Yes.

There are all kinds of reasons why having children may be more difficult for one person than another. Generally speaking, just because something is difficult doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be done.

[Martinus]

What do you suppose the risks are of being born into an Eastern European dictatorship?

It depends - are the potential parents educated, running own business and well off? Then yes, sure. Are they human refuse living off the state's dole? Then probably not (unfortunately they did and we still see problems from it with entire regions being plagued by structural unemployment).

[Octavian]

Researchers have consistently found that children born outside marriage face elevated risks of falling into poverty, failing in school or suffering emotional and behavioral problems: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/18/us/for-women-under-30-most-births-occur-outside-marriage.html

I have also read that the upward mobility rate (not to mention incarceration, graduation rates, etc.) of kids born into poverty is also significant retarded. Sure, we like to remember a few exceptions from our personal networks, but the reality is not so uplifting for children in troubled/single-parent households.

Having an "elevated risk of falling into poverty, failing in school or suffering emotional or behavioural problems" is a long, long way from being better off not having been born.

You understand of course that the bread and butter of my work is dealing with society's less fortunate.  They have a lot of problems, but most of them are trying to do right by themselves and the world, and probably less than 5 have I ever felt that the world would simply be better off if they never existed.

What do those less then five do?

Defense lawyers

[Phillip V]

Would I recommend to single women to not have a child on their own because statistically life will be much harder for her and the child? Yes.

There are all kinds of reasons why having children may be more difficult for one person than another. Generally speaking, just because something is difficult doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be done.

That's why I just give a recommendation, not a rule.

Single women are free to tell me to go fuck myself (or alternatively fuck me), then go off and have their bastard children.

[dps]

Would I recommend to single women to not have a child on their own because statistically life will be much harder for her and the child? Yes.

There are all kinds of reasons why having children may be more difficult for one person than another. Generally speaking, just because something is difficult doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be done.

Nobody who's having a child can guarantee that they won't become a single parent at some point.  You could have a child today and your spouse could be killed in a car wreck tomorrow.

[Malthus]

So, I take it the overall conclusion is that defense lawyers should not have children? 

Some wise-ass is bound to remove "defense" ...