Calling Languish parents: Why did you decide to have children?

[Ideologue]

In any case I did feel an obligation, as an intelligent and able person, to bring kids into the world raised the right way with the right values and society does need a steady flow of children at a modest rate to keep things going.  We are well below this modest rate in alot of the first world so I felt like people needed to step up and fill out the next generation a bit.  I mean do you ever worry how so many of the next generation are being brought into the world by fundies and those in poverty?  Can progress be sustained like that?  That line of thinking made me think this is something I had an imperative to do to the best of my ability.

Given over population in general though, maybe we should just pick up little black and brown babies and raise them here?

Human nature being what it is, biological imperative and such, a widespread adoption program is only likely to get off the ground if we sterilize the First World.

I'll go get the tongs.

[Martinus]

In any case I did feel an obligation, as an intelligent and able person, to bring kids into the world raised the right way with the right values and society does need a steady flow of children at a modest rate to keep things going.  We are well below this modest rate in alot of the first world so I felt like people needed to step up and fill out the next generation a bit.  I mean do you ever worry how so many of the next generation are being brought into the world by fundies and those in poverty?  Can progress be sustained like that?  That line of thinking made me think this is something I had an imperative to do to the best of my ability.

Given over population in general though, maybe we should just pick up little black and brown babies and raise them here?

Human nature being what it is, biological imperative and such, a widespread adoption program is only likely to get off the ground if we sterilize the First World.

I'll go get the tongs.

Again, your worldview proves to be quite inconsistent. You are a representative of a hillbilly left (the opposite of the caviar left) and the best example that you can take Ideologue out of the redneck-ness but you can't take the redneck-ness out of Ideologue.

[Eddie Teach]

Or you could sterilize the third world, you know, the people who are still having 4-8 kids instead of 2. Might be a tad more effective if controlling overpopulation is your goal...

[garbon]

Or you could sterilize the third world, you know, the people who are still having 4-8 kids instead of 2. Might be a tad more effective if controlling overpopulation is your goal...

Just seemed that if Valmy's concern is demographic collapse in the West, rather than opt for a solution that just contributes to overpopulation - put the current neglect overpopulation to some use.

[Valmy]

Given over population in general though, maybe we should just pick up little black and brown babies and raise them here?

I thought about this but I do not really think this is a serious concern anymore.  Demographic collapse seems pretty universal now.  Also there seems to be some sort of offense foreigners take when we take their babies to raise them our way.

[Martinus]

Given over population in general though, maybe we should just pick up little black and brown babies and raise them here?

I thought about this but I do not really think this is a serious concern anymore.  Demographic collapse seems pretty universal now.  Also there seems to be some sort of offense foreigners take when we take their babies to raise them our way.

What about orphans/abandonned children in the US?

[garbon]

I thought about this but I do not really think this is a serious concern anymore.  Demographic collapse seems pretty universal now.

I'm not so sure of that look up quick stats on few places.

Also there seems to be some sort of offense foreigners take when we take their babies to raise them our way.

And people are offended when we don't help them feed their babies and offended when we do help feed their babies. Not sure if offense should be a credible driver of behavior.

[Eddie Teach]

The premise that Valmy should feel guilty for wanting to raise his own offspring and not somebody else's is stupid and it's a shame he's buying into it. 

[garbon]

The premise that Valmy should feel guilty for wanting to raise his own offspring and not somebody else's is stupid and it's a shame he's buying into it. 

Oh well I'm not actually thinking that at all. Just thinking off of what Valmy said when he decided to play Marti's game.

[Berkut]

I am not sure I understand the question, or rather, I don't understand why it was asked.

Isn't the *desire* for progeny a rather well understood phenomenon?  I wasn't really aware there was any need to explain it, even to those who do not share it.

It's the same reason Marty wants to have sex for example - because we are programmed to do so.

What is funny about the question is that Marty seems to understand (and feel no need to justify) why he wants to have sex, but is confused by why people want children. Does he not even understand that HIS desire to fuck is nothing at all more than the physical manifestation of the desire to procreate that all living beings (in general) have by definition?

It's all biology.

[Martinus]

The premise that Valmy should feel guilty for wanting to raise his own offspring and not somebody else's is stupid and it's a shame he's buying into it. 

Oh well I'm not actually thinking that at all. Just thinking off of what Valmy said when he decided to play Marti's game.

It's funny how Peter Wiggin et consortes accuse people "of our ilk" of being self-dubting and defensive but are acting very defensive themselves, as if a mere question of their motives was somehow an attack on them personally. It reminds me of the reaction of religious people a bit when someone questions their faith.

[Martinus]

I am not sure I understand the question, or rather, I don't understand why it was asked.

Isn't the *desire* for progeny a rather well understood phenomenon?  I wasn't really aware there was any need to explain it, even to those who do not share it.

It's the same reason Marty wants to have sex for example - because we are programmed to do so.

What is funny about the question is that Marty seems to understand (and feel no need to justify) why he wants to have sex, but is confused by why people want children. Does he not even understand that HIS desire to fuck is nothing at all more than the physical manifestation of the desire to procreate that all living beings (in general) have by definition?

It's all biology.

Still, the difference is quite clear - sex between two consenting adults does not concern anyone else and is entirely their decision to make, no? This is quite different from procreation which results in bringing a concious human being into the world in an act such being has no say about whatsoever - surely in such case you have to consider more than just a biological imperative, being a thinking, self-aware human being yourself, no?

I find it rather unsatisfactory that you of all people (who seems to have always prided himself on his rational thinking) would not see it and are happy to give up your rational decision making process to a "biological imperative" (which, as we know quite well, is not by far the ultimate justification of all our actions - otherwise we would not have a need for what we call "civilization").

[merithyn]

Or you could sterilize the third world, you know, the people who are still having 4-8 kids instead of 2. Might be a tad more effective if controlling overpopulation is your goal...

As to the OP, because I enjoy children. I enjoy playing with them, I enjoy raising them, and I enjoy being around them. To make it easier for all of those things to happen, I gave birth to them. Simple as that.

[Valmy]

Oh well I'm not actually thinking that at all. Just thinking off of what Valmy said when he decided to play Marti's game.

Ok point taken.  Sorry for participating.

[Martinus]

Or you could sterilize the third world, you know, the people who are still having 4-8 kids instead of 2. Might be a tad more effective if controlling overpopulation is your goal...

As to the OP, because I enjoy children. I enjoy playing with them, I enjoy raising them, and I enjoy being around them. To make it easier for all of those things to happen, I gave birth to them. Simple as that.

Perhaps you should have sticked to playing EQ.