German court rules religious circumcision on boys an assault

[merithyn]

Both are outpatient procedures. But still, do you think that parents should be permitted to do minor religiously motivated elective cosmetic surgery on infants?

No one cries over piercing a little girl's ears. That seems the most similar procedure that takes place, and it's one that I doubt many would consider outlawing.

[The Brain]

Both are outpatient procedures. But still, do you think that parents should be permitted to do minor religiously motivated elective cosmetic surgery on infants?

No one cries over piercing a little girl's ears. That seems the most similar procedure that takes place, and it's one that I doubt many would consider outlawing.

[Valmy]

As above. Making up shit isn't an argument. American Christians circumcise for religious reasons as well. You don't deal with my argument in any way you just make shit up.

Wait you get to make shit up and then we have to come up with with non-shit to refute it?  How is that fair?

[The Brain]

Life isn't fair. Ask the guys who happened to be born in Bobbiton, USA.

[Viking]

Both are outpatient procedures. But still, do you think that parents should be permitted to do minor religiously motivated elective cosmetic surgery on infants?

No one cries over piercing a little girl's ears. That seems the most similar procedure that takes place, and it's one that I doubt many would consider outlawing.

But if it were done without the little girl's consent or if it were done to infant girls then we would be.

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Body-piercing/Pages/Introduction.aspx

Age restrictions

There is no legal age restriction on most body piercings, however performing genital or nipple piercing on someone under the age of 16 could be considered an offence.

So, in England piercing it is illegal, but cutting it off is legal. When religion is left out of it Medical Ethics gets it right. It is just that in the case of circumcision religion is interfering with normal medical ethics.

[merithyn]

But if it were done without the little girl's consent or if it were done to infant girls then we would be.

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Body-piercing/Pages/Introduction.aspx

Age restrictions

There is no legal age restriction on most body piercings, however performing genital or nipple piercing on someone under the age of 16 could be considered an offence.

So, in England piercing it is illegal, but cutting it off is legal. When religion is left out of it Medical Ethics gets it right. It is just that in the case of circumcision religion is interfering with normal medical ethics.

Actually, I meant her ears. The only requirement is that she have had her first round of shots, which happens usually around her two-month check-up. It's a cosmetic procedure that causes some pain and has the potential - however minor - to cause an infection, much like a circumcision. To my knowledge, no one has ever considered making it illegal, though, even if the child can't give permission.

By the way, your quote says that it "could" be considered an offense. Not quite the same as it is an offense.

[The Brain]

I've heard a crazy rumor that holes in ears can close if they don't see use.

[Valmy]

So, in England piercing it is illegal, but cutting it off is legal. When religion is left out of it Medical Ethics gets it right. It is just that in the case of circumcision religion is interfering with normal medical ethics.

What a completely baseless position.  Medical Ethics does not have a spotless record.  This is the sort of bullshit I am talking about. 

[merithyn]

I've heard a crazy rumor that holes in ears can close if they don't see use.

That rarely happens if the ears are pierced as infants, which is why a lot of parents do it then. Saves having to redo it later even if she chooses not to wear earrings for a long while. So, again, a permanent cosmetic procedure without the child's consent.

[Malthus]

Do you support arresting pediatric othodontists, then?

Orthodontists are doing a service to their patients.

Few young children ask for cosmetic orthodontic work.

[DGuller]

Maybe and I agree on your general point.  But I can't help thinking that cutting a child's genitals, especially given that it can affect their enjoyment of sex through their life is something the state can be legitimately concerned with

I have been with *mumble* men, only two of whom were not circumsized. All of them seemed to enjoy sex quite a bit. I'm fairly sure the number that it affects in that way is pretty small. Additionally, it's more likely to affect them if they are circumsized later in life than as infants. So, if that's a concern, it seems to be an argument for infancy circumcision rather than against it.

Foreskin sure makes it easier to masturbate, though, which is probably why it rubbed Americans the wrong way in the first place decades ago.

[dps]

I have faced the facts - if this didn't involve religion PEOPLE WOULD LISTEN TO THE ADVICE OF THEIR DOCTOR!

Yep, and in America, most males are circumcised because their parents listened to the advice of their doctors--the vast majority of American parents have no religious reason to have their male infants circumcised, even if you mistakenly believe otherwise.

[The Brain]

American doctors suggest unnecessary procedures? SAY IT AIN'T SO

[Valmy]

Yep, and in America, most males are circumcised because their parents listened to the advice of their doctors--the vast majority of American parents have no religious reason to have their male infants circumcised, even if you mistakenly believe otherwise.

Eh he prefers to make up facts and then force us to disprove his fantasies.  We only live here what do we know?

[CountDeMoney]

Few young children ask for cosmetic orthodontic work.

Unless they're a friend of Marty's, who really hates too much tooth action.