World Bank: Unions Good for the Economy

[CountDeMoney]

If only your political system wasn't hopeless corrupt.

Most of Languish seems to like it that way.

[crazy canuck]

To Jacob's question of who then represents the workers - these days that is largely done through legislation in the form of employments standards, human rights and workers compensation for disability or injury on the job.

And who drives those?  Certainly not the employers, and certainly not the elected officials on their own.  Its the unions, and the political pressure they can bring to bear to affect change. 

Neither government or corporations would ever establish employment standards or enact legislation guaranteeing things like Workers' Compensation, disability or injury insurance (all of which usually entail costs) out of the goodness of their hearts or because "it's the right thing to do".   

That's why Unions drive for membership, they raise money, they organize:  because that's the only way to get things done at the local, state and federal level.  Saying "pretty please" sure as shit isn't going to do it.

Corporations can bury elected officials in piles of cash to get things done, but unions can't?  Fuck that noise.

I think that is a function of where you live.  What you are describing is not accurate here.  Unions have had very little affect on the leglislative process here.  Indeed in this Province - the kinds of legislation we are talking about are largely within Provincial jurisdiction - non NDP governments have brought in the legislation.

A good illustration of why a topic like "are unions universally good or bad" is flawed.

[CountDeMoney]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.  Enough of the "Canada is better" schtick, already.  Fucking hockeypucks.

YOUR CURLING AND YOUR VERSION OF FOOTBALL SUCKS ASS.

[crazy canuck]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.  Enough of the "Canada is better" schtick, already.  Fucking hockeypucks.

YOUR CURLING AND YOUR VERSION OF FOOTBALL SUCKS ASS.

Curling does suck, as does hockey, but our political institutions are pretty good.  I think part of the reason for that is because we have a greater diversity of political belief here.  Your two parties are right wing and more right wing. 

[Neil]

as does hockey,

Sour grapes?

[crazy canuck]

Cdm, another thing that makes our experience regarding employment issues different is the way the common law regarding employment contracts developed in our two countries.  Here the legislative obligations of employers are often minimum standards which must be met and the law implies signficantly higher standards as regards notice on termination etc.  I get that sense that in the US the legislated standards are really all employees have to protect them.

[CountDeMoney]

I get that sense that in the US the legislated standards are really all employees have to protect them.

You sense correctly.  They're already doing it in various GOP-run states, so can't wait to see Mittens and the rest of the boys roll 'em back federally to the level of a Steinbeck novel.

[dps]

To Jacob's question of who then represents the workers - these days that is largely done through legislation in the form of employments standards, human rights and workers compensation for disability or injury on the job.

And who drives those?  Certainly not the employers, and certainly not the elected officials on their own.  Its the unions, and the political pressure they can bring to bear to affect change. 

Neither government or corporations would ever establish employment standards or enact legislation guaranteeing things like Workers' Compensation, disability or injury insurance (all of which usually entail costs) out of the goodness of their hearts or because "it's the right thing to do".   

That's why Unions drive for membership, they raise money, they organize:  because that's the only way to get things done at the local, state and federal level.  Saying "pretty please" sure as shit isn't going to do it.

Corporations can bury elected officials in piles of cash to get things done, but unions can't?  Fuck that noise.

I think that is a function of where you live.  What you are describing is not accurate here.  Unions have had very little affect on the leglislative process here.  Indeed in this Province - the kinds of legislation we are talking about are largely within Provincial jurisdiction - non NDP governments have brought in the legislation.

A good illustration of why a topic like "are unions universally good or bad" is flawed.

CdM's arguments also ignore that a lot of the legislative actions he's talking about bacame law during Republican administrations--for example, OSHA was signed into law by Nixon.

[DGuller]

When you invoke Nixon as an example of Republican policies, you may as well invoke Lincoln.

[CountDeMoney]

CdM's arguments also ignore that a lot of the legislative actions he's talking about bacame law during Republican administrations--for example, OSHA was signed into law by Nixon.

Wow, bringing up shit from 40 years ago.  Big deal; Nixon unified a dozen and a half disparate agencies into the EPA--and every Republican since Reagan has sought to either roll it back or eliminate it.  So fucking what.

Like DG says, why don't we discuss Lincoln or Teddy Roosevelt's trust-busting as an example of today's GOP platform of financial regulation. 

C'mon, man;  I usually expect more from you than this, dps.  For shame.

[derspiess]

Your two parties are right wing and more right wing. 

Not true.  Crack the thin surface of the Democrat party and you'll find plenty that is genuine left wing. 

[Neil]

CdM's arguments also ignore that a lot of the legislative actions he's talking about bacame law during Republican administrations--for example, OSHA was signed into law by Nixon.

The Nixon administration was a very different animal compared to the modern Republicans.  The old, moderate Republicans are mostly gone.

[Neil]

Your two parties are right wing and more right wing. 

Not true.  Crack the thin surface of the Democrat party and you'll find plenty that is genuine left wing.

I guess it depends on which faction you're talking about.

[crazy canuck]

Your two parties are right wing and more right wing. 

Not true.  Crack the thin surface of the Democrat party and you'll find plenty that is genuine left wing.

Assuming that is true that goes to the point that there is no real left wing party in the US - even the left wingers have to masquerade as right wingers.