It's morning in Wisconsin

[derspiess]

Oh, Lord.  Tribes again.

[Berkut]

And here we go, Berkut is on his high horse yet again.  I should've known that the polite tone was just a trap, and he was poised to shovel more of the same "tribe" shit at the first opportunity.  I'm done.

Wow, you went right to the ad hom immediately, and here I thought you were trying to change the tone. Oh well.

[alfred russel]

It is still quite limited in most states; however, the dam is about to break: Lousiana just passed a law that in two years will make all kids able to receive vouchers to escape the public education system.  That's right, a 100% voucher system.  I think you are going to see a lot more movement in that direction.  And given the record of the public education system in Louisiana it can only get better through competition.

Do you really think that communities where almost everyone is from a broken home, high school dropouts are a lot of the parents, crime rates are very high, etc. are going to suddenly produce great students? If you give those kids vouchers, you are going to need to open new private schools--there aren't enough existing private schools to take them, and in any event they wouldn't want those kids. I suspect a lot of the schools that will open are going to be much worse than the schools that currently exist.

[Berkut]

Personally, I would support campaign finance reform at the Amerndment level, if necessary, to start dealing with campaign finance reform.

That is probably the road we will have to do down next.

You are probably right, although it is pretty ridiculous that the USSC has decided that the first stretches so far as to cover crap like super-pacs.

[Berkut]

It is still quite limited in most states; however, the dam is about to break: Lousiana just passed a law that in two years will make all kids able to receive vouchers to escape the public education system.  That's right, a 100% voucher system.  I think you are going to see a lot more movement in that direction.  And given the record of the public education system in Louisiana it can only get better through competition.

Do you really think that communities where almost everyone is from a broken home, high school dropouts are a lot of the parents, crime rates are very high, etc. are going to suddenly produce great students? If you give those kids vouchers, you are going to need to open new private schools--there aren't enough existing private schools to take them, and in any event they wouldn't want those kids. I suspect a lot of the schools that will open are going to be much worse than the schools that currently exist.

If they are much worse, they will fail. Nobody is going to send their kids to shitty schools that are worse than the alternatives.

[Valmy]

Do you really think that communities where almost everyone is from a broken home, high school dropouts are a lot of the parents, crime rates are very high, etc. are going to suddenly produce great students? If you give those kids vouchers, you are going to need to open new private schools--there aren't enough existing private schools to take them, and in any event they wouldn't want those kids. I suspect a lot of the schools that will open are going to be much worse than the schools that currently exist.

And this is my primary concern: most of the kids from those neighborhoods are going to end up in the bad schools anyway.  Just now they will even more poorly funded than before.  So the problem will remain.  It should benefit alot of individual students however.

But I have an open mind and am eager to see a state do it whole hog.  If it works we will all do it.

[Valmy]

You are probably right, although it is pretty ridiculous that the USSC has decided that the first stretches so far as to cover crap like super-pacs.

I know.  It fills me with rage and frustration just thinking about it.  The road to campaign reform is going to be far longer and harder now.  I think we will still do it though....eventually.  Nobody really likes the current system, it takes up too much of a politicians time for fund raising and costs the private sector too much money.

[Valmy]

If they are much worse, they will fail. Nobody is going to send their kids to shitty schools that are worse than the alternatives.

Well it is not like there is going to be more money for schools than before.  Somebody is going to end up in the shitty schools.

[Grey Fox]

What are school vouchers?

[DGuller]

And here we go, Berkut is on his high horse yet again.  I should've known that the polite tone was just a trap, and he was poised to shovel more of the same "tribe" shit at the first opportunity.  I'm done.

Wow, you went right to the ad hom immediately, and here I thought you were trying to change the tone. Oh well.

I was, but then you started up the "tribe" shit again, but nice try at portraying it like I was the one who started it.  It's my fault, though;  I have definitely been fooled like this way, way more than twice, so the shame is on me.  You just don't get the concept of detente;  just like grumbler, you play along with it just until you're ready to strike.

[The Brain]

What are school vouchers?

The tax money for a kid's education follows the kid to whatever school, public or private, it attends.

[Grey Fox]

What are school vouchers?

The tax money for a kid's education follows the kid to whatever school, public or private, it attends.

If attending a private school, does one have to pay the normal rate of admission/tuition?

[alfred russel]

If they are much worse, they will fail. Nobody is going to send their kids to shitty schools that are worse than the alternatives.

It seems the primary driver of education achievement relates to a parent's education, income, and interest in the child's education, as well as the peer group of the child. The studies I've read about show that when you adjust for these factors, private schools aren't any better than public.

So long as you concentrate at risk kids in certain schools, you are going to get really shitty schools. At least now the schools that take the most at risk kids have standards and curricula set by the state with reasonably well compensated teachers. I could see a lot of schools competing based on the level of day care services they provide rather than teaching standards. "We'll take your kid at 9ish, you don't need to pick him up until 6ish, we'll cover the food, never mind that the class sizes are enormous, the teachers are paid nothing, while the owner/principal takes home a mint." For a single parent without an education herself struggling to make ends meet, that may be acceptible.

[The Brain]

What are school vouchers?

The tax money for a kid's education follows the kid to whatever school, public or private, it attends.

If attending a private school, does one have to pay the normal rate of admission/tuition?

In the Swedish system schools that accept voucher money cannot charge anything.

[MadImmortalMan]

the only employment in Jefferson City is state work.

Kinda makes you wonder why the city exists. Has everyone left yet?