Full time job? Consider yourself lucky

[Ideologue]

I think DGullers poker analogy really does an excellent job of ullustrating just what I mean.

Bad poker players will lose at poker, and say "Man, I just don't have any luck!" and focus on those bad hands where they couldn't draw to that inside straight, and think "Yeah, I lost because I was just not lucky!"

Good poker players just keep winning the bad players money, and they don't do it because they are so damn lucky, but because they know how to mitigate the bad hands, and make their opponenets pay on the good hands, and how to tell the difference between the two.

The outcome, however, is rarely in doubt. Those who are better will do better than those who are not as skilled. And that has nothing to do with luck, even if there is a lot of randomness in the mechanics of the game.

This is pretty preposterous considering how "better" is usually a function of at least one quasi-random process that has almost no design whatsoever if you reach far enough back, i.e. human mating.  No one chooses the genes, connections, and wealth they are born with, and no amount of perseverance can acquire it.

Beyond that, everything anyone does is built upon the labor of a trillion human lives and the invention of a trillion human minds.  It's ridiculous to suppose otherwise--that any individual human has succeeded in the slightest task solely upon his or her own merits.  You don't take a shit without every human who's ever lived helping you wipe your ass.

[Habbaku]

[Ideologue]

Habbaku chopped down his own trees, made his own toilet paper, crafted his own toilet, laid his own pipes, and built his own mother fucking water treatment facility, and learned how to do it all by himself.  I am: impressed.

Or maybe he just jumps into a river buck naked because clothes would involve other people's industry, and lets fly.  I'm not ruling that out.

[Habbaku]

More likely is he just recognizes your statements for what they are : some of the biggest strawmen ever posted on Languish, including anyone ever encountered by grumbler.

[Ideologue]

Look, I still think it sounds cool.

The point is, however hyperbolically expressed, that we cannot choose most of the things that make us who we are, and which guide and constrain and sometimes dictate the choices we do make.  Certainly not before we are born; and in many cases, most of the time thereafter.

Therefore it makes more sense to suppose that we're all in this shitty, chaotic world together and to help each other to the best of our abilities, not to cry "personal responsibility!" when one of our cousins stumbles, or--as is at least as often the case--pushed.

[Eddie Teach]

Therefore it makes more sense to suppose that we're all in this shitty, chaotic world together and to help each other to the best of our abilities, not to cry "personal responsibility!" when one of our cousins stumbles, or--as is at least as often the case--pushed.

[garbon]

Therefore it makes more sense to suppose that we're all in this shitty, chaotic world together and to help each other to the best of our abilities, not to cry "personal responsibility!" when one of our cousins stumbles, or--as is at least as often the case--pushed.

If the world is so shitty, why should we care about our cousins? Why shouldn't just try and milk as much personal happiness as we can?

[Ideologue]

Therefore it makes more sense to suppose that we're all in this shitty, chaotic world together and to help each other to the best of our abilities, not to cry "personal responsibility!" when one of our cousins stumbles, or--as is at least as often the case--pushed.

If the world is so shitty, why should we care about our cousins? Why shouldn't just try and milk as much personal happiness as we can?

That's zero-sum thinking, my friend.

[The Brain]

First we are absolutely lucky to have been born in the West, and not to Chinese peasant farmers or Indian slum dwellers.

Considering that my parents were (and are) Swedes living in Sweden I find it extremely unlikely that I would have been born to Chinese or Indians.

[Jacob]

Look, I still think it sounds cool.

The point is, however hyperbolically expressed, that we cannot choose most of the things that make us who we are, and which guide and constrain and sometimes dictate the choices we do make.  Certainly not before we are born; and in many cases, most of the time thereafter.

Therefore it makes more sense to suppose that we're all in this shitty, chaotic world together and to help each other to the best of our abilities, not to cry "personal responsibility!" when one of our cousins stumbles, or--as is at least as often the case--pushed.

[Barrister]

Look, I still think it sounds cool.

The point is, however hyperbolically expressed, that we cannot choose most of the things that make us who we are, and which guide and constrain and sometimes dictate the choices we do make.  Certainly not before we are born; and in many cases, most of the time thereafter.

Therefore it makes more sense to suppose that we're all in this shitty, chaotic world together and to help each other to the best of our abilities, not to cry "personal responsibility!" when one of our cousins stumbles, or--as is at least as often the case--pushed.

It's a balance.  Sometimes people do need to be able to fail in order to learn their lesson.

You need both a carrot and a stick.

[Malthus]

Heh this thread reminds me of calvinists and catholics arguing about predestination vs. free will.  Believe that luck is all doesn't necessarily lead to compassion for the luckless - can lead to fatalism instead. Just like believing that individual effort is all can lead to the arrogant assumption that those who haven't succeeded deserve their fate.

As is so often the case, I think the reality lies somewhere between - both luck and effort are required.

[Berkut]

Heh this thread reminds me of calvinists and catholics arguing about predestination vs. free will.  Believe that luck is all doesn't necessarily lead to compassion for the luckless - can lead to fatalism instead. Just like believing that individual effort is all can lead to the arrogant assumption that those who haven't succeeded deserve their fate.

As is so often the case, I think the reality lies somewhere between - both luck and effort are required.

But you can only control one of those, so it makes sense to focus on the thing you can control, rather than the things you cannot.

But yes, this is my point. It is NOT just about luck.

[garbon]

Therefore it makes more sense to suppose that we're all in this shitty, chaotic world together and to help each other to the best of our abilities, not to cry "personal responsibility!" when one of our cousins stumbles, or--as is at least as often the case--pushed.

If the world is so shitty, why should we care about our cousins? Why shouldn't just try and milk as much personal happiness as we can?

That's zero-sum thinking, my friend.

Not really as I'm not saying that other people can't also have happiness, it just seems like in such a shitty world, people would be inured to the pain of their cousins as its a common occurrence. So why feel compelled to help each other out if the world is still going to be shitty at the end of the day?

[Admiral Yi]

Therefore it makes more sense to suppose that we're all in this shitty, chaotic world together and to help each other to the best of our abilities, not to cry "personal responsibility!" when one of our cousins stumbles, or--as is at least as often the case--pushed.

What should we do when one of our cousins loafs?