Hawaii verifies Obama birth records to Arizona

[Admiral Yi]

Because I'm interested in your reasoning.

And you're not interested in theirs? 

I would need some evidence of volition.  An open mike gaffe, a secret memo, a leaked email, something like that.  A letter from Roger Ailes to Rush Limbaugh (does he do birtherism?) stating, "yeah, this birther stuff is BS but it's an effective way of mobilizing white racist antipathy towards Obama so let's play it for all it's worth."

I think the simpler explanations for birtherism make much more sense than this wacked out plot idea.

[Berkut]

That strategy has been used before by non-racists as well. Kennedy is an excellent example.

So once again, the "evidence" is not actually evidence at all.

No it is evidence and contexts that you do not find convincing.  It is still evidence and contexts though.

Evidence that has been shown to be spurious is not evidence.

Your claim was that this was a unique phenomenon, and hence has a unique root cause (racism).

But it is not unique, and in fact has been used against about as lily white a President as there could be - so how can it be certainly racist? How can it be racist when it was used against John F. Freaking Kennedy?

Your argument is like saying that the moon landings were fake because the flag would not "fly" on the moon, then when someone points out that the flag as not cloth, insisting "Well, it is still evidence that we didn't land on the moon, even if YOU don't find it compelling!"

This is EXACTLY what the brithers are doing, btw - simply discounting any argument or evidence that flies in the face of their cherished belief that Obama was not born in the USA.

"No it is evidence and contexts that you do not find convincing.  It is still evidence and contexts though."

That statement makes exactly as much sense when stated in response to someone showing a birther Obama's Hawaii birth certificate to refute their "evidence" that he was born in Kenya.

[Razgovory]

... and the fact that she married a Republican.

That doesn't make you a Republican, it just makes you a dirty filthy whore.

I want to officially register my objection to this characterization of Laura Bush, and I want to point out that Seedy's views do not necessarily reflect the views of DGuller. 

Berkut disagrees.  You hate her because she's a Republican.

[Valmy]

Valmy: I suppose you're talking about Willie Horton?

Yes.  That is a good one.  The best ones usually have excellent non-racist reasons to have that opinion.  Affirmative action, school busing, being tough on criminals, drug policy, illegal immigration...those are great ones because they are sanitized by having lots of non-racists have a certain stand on them but you can also use them (in different ways than to a mainstream audience usually and usually by very different sorts of politicians and organizations) to mobilize racists.  The birther and Willie Horton ad are a bit unusual because they are alot more brazen (no offense Brazen) than usual.

[Admiral Yi]

There's a birther ad?

[derspiess]

Hell, Seedy once accused the Shrubbery's wife of murdering her boyfriend when she was a teenager based on nothing more than the fact that she married a Republican.

I did not.
I accused her of vehicular manslaughter, based on nothing more than the fact that she committed a traffic device violation.

... and the fact that she married a Republican.

That doesn't make you a Republican, it just makes you a dirty filthy whore.

Let's not bring Sandra Fluke back into this, plz.

[derspiess]

Rush Limbaugh (does he do birtherism?)

No. 

[Admiral Yi]

No.

Do you know who does?  Aside from The Donald.

[Valmy]

But it is not unique, and in fact has been used against about as lily white a President as there could be - so how can it be certainly racist? How can it be racist when it was used against John F. Freaking Kennedy?

It was used in a xenophobic way.  Xenophobes and racists are not identical people but sometimes they can be fellow travelers.

Your argument is like saying that the moon landings were fake because the flag would not "fly" on the moon, then when someone points out that the flag as not cloth, insisting "Well, it is still evidence that we didn't land on the moon, even if YOU don't find it compelling!"

It is not like saying that at all.  You have not shown me any hard physical evidence.

This is EXACTLY what the brithers are doing, btw - simply discounting any argument or evidence that flies in the face of their cherished belief that Obama was not born in the USA.

I do not particularly cherish this.  Why would I cherish this sort of thing?

And you asked me before what is the point?  Well this is it really.  You keep attacking me so I feel the need to defend myself.  So now what I am doing is what the birthers are doing.

"No it is evidence and contexts that you do not find convincing.  It is still evidence and contexts though."

That statement makes exactly as much sense when stated in response to someone showing a birther Obama's Hawaii birth certificate to refute their "evidence" that he was born in Kenya.

Ok so unless I find something that convinces you personally I make no sense and am a birther?  Oh for Godsake.

[Valmy]

There's a birther ad?

No.  Sorry bad English on my part.  The Birther Movement and the Willie Horton ad.

[Valmy]

Do you know who does?  Aside from The Donald.

Pretty sure nobody respectable in the Republican Party does...unless you consider this dufus from Arizona respectable.

[Razgovory]

Rush Limbaugh (does he do birtherism?)

No.

Incorrect.  Limbaugh has no problem questioning Obama's citizenship.  http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201104110017

[Razgovory]

Do you know who does?  Aside from The Donald.

Pretty sure nobody respectable in the Republican Party does...unless you consider this dufus from Arizona respectable.

That and several congressmen and Senators.  Also about half the base.

[Razgovory]

There's a birther ad?

An Ad?  They've got a whole infomercial.  http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/09/as_seen_on_tv_birthermercial_asks_where_was_obama.php

[CountDeMoney]

Do you know who does?  Aside from The Donald.

Pretty sure nobody respectable in the Republican Party does...unless you consider this dufus from Arizona respectable.

Yeah luckily House GOP members like Rep. Cliff Stearns (R) of Florida, Rep. Vicky Hartzler (R) of Missouri or Rep. Mike Coffman (R) of Colorado aren't respectable.
Neither are North Carolina GOP candidates like Jim Pendergraph, or or Iowa State GOP Chairman Don Racheter.

Whew.  Thank Kenya they're not respectable members of the Republican Party.