Hawaii verifies Obama birth records to Arizona

Started by garbon, May 23, 2012, 08:48:07 AM

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Admiral Yi

#405
May 30, 2012, 02:06:30 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 30, 2012, 01:57:38 PM
Because I'm interested in your reasoning.

And you're not interested in theirs?  :lol:

I would need some evidence of volition.  An open mike gaffe, a secret memo, a leaked email, something like that.  A letter from Roger Ailes to Rush Limbaugh (does he do birtherism?) stating, "yeah, this birther stuff is BS but it's an effective way of mobilizing white racist antipathy towards Obama so let's play it for all it's worth."

I think the simpler explanations for birtherism make much more sense than this wacked out plot idea.

Berkut

#406
May 30, 2012, 02:06:43 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 30, 2012, 01:42:05 PM
Quote from: Berkut on May 30, 2012, 01:33:58 PM
That strategy has been used before by non-racists as well. Kennedy is an excellent example.

So once again, the "evidence" is not actually evidence at all.

No it is evidence and contexts that you do not find convincing.  It is still evidence and contexts though.

Evidence that has been shown to be spurious is not evidence.

Your claim was that this was a unique phenomenon, and hence has a unique root cause (racism).

But it is not unique, and in fact has been used against about as lily white a President as there could be - so how can it be certainly racist? How can it be racist when it was used against John F. Freaking Kennedy?

Your argument is like saying that the moon landings were fake because the flag would not "fly" on the moon, then when someone points out that the flag as not cloth, insisting "Well, it is still evidence that we didn't land on the moon, even if YOU don't find it compelling!"

This is EXACTLY what the brithers are doing, btw - simply discounting any argument or evidence that flies in the face of their cherished belief that Obama was not born in the USA.

"No it is evidence and contexts that you do not find convincing.  It is still evidence and contexts though."

That statement makes exactly as much sense when stated in response to someone showing a birther Obama's Hawaii birth certificate to refute their "evidence" that he was born in Kenya.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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Razgovory

#407
May 30, 2012, 02:07:34 PM
Quote from: DGuller on May 30, 2012, 02:05:41 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 30, 2012, 01:58:22 PM
Quote from: Neil on May 30, 2012, 01:40:56 PM
... and the fact that she married a Republican.

That doesn't make you a Republican, it just makes you a dirty filthy whore.
I want to officially register my objection to this characterization of Laura Bush, and I want to point out that Seedy's views do not necessarily reflect the views of DGuller.  :mad:

Berkut disagrees.  You hate her because she's a Republican.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Valmy

#408
May 30, 2012, 02:08:48 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 30, 2012, 01:49:01 PM
Valmy: I suppose you're talking about Willie Horton?

Yes.  That is a good one.  The best ones usually have excellent non-racist reasons to have that opinion.  Affirmative action, school busing, being tough on criminals, drug policy, illegal immigration...those are great ones because they are sanitized by having lots of non-racists have a certain stand on them but you can also use them (in different ways than to a mainstream audience usually and usually by very different sorts of politicians and organizations) to mobilize racists.  The birther and Willie Horton ad are a bit unusual because they are alot more brazen (no offense Brazen) than usual.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Admiral Yi

#409
May 30, 2012, 02:09:54 PM
There's a birther ad?

derspiess

#410
May 30, 2012, 02:12:26 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 30, 2012, 01:58:22 PM
Quote from: Neil on May 30, 2012, 01:40:56 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 30, 2012, 09:27:51 AM
Quote from: Berkut on May 30, 2012, 08:56:29 AM
Hell, Seedy once accused the Shrubbery's wife of murdering her boyfriend when she was a teenager based on nothing more than the fact that she married a Republican.

I did not.
I accused her of vehicular manslaughter, based on nothing more than the fact that she committed a traffic device violation.
... and the fact that she married a Republican.

That doesn't make you a Republican, it just makes you a dirty filthy whore.

Let's not bring Sandra Fluke back into this, plz.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

derspiess

#411
May 30, 2012, 02:14:03 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 30, 2012, 02:06:30 PM
Rush Limbaugh (does he do birtherism?)

No. 
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Valmy

#413
May 30, 2012, 02:17:08 PM Last Edit: May 30, 2012, 02:19:51 PM by Valmy
Quote from: Berkut on May 30, 2012, 02:06:43 PM
But it is not unique, and in fact has been used against about as lily white a President as there could be - so how can it be certainly racist? How can it be racist when it was used against John F. Freaking Kennedy?

It was used in a xenophobic way.  Xenophobes and racists are not identical people but sometimes they can be fellow travelers.

QuoteYour argument is like saying that the moon landings were fake because the flag would not "fly" on the moon, then when someone points out that the flag as not cloth, insisting "Well, it is still evidence that we didn't land on the moon, even if YOU don't find it compelling!"

It is not like saying that at all.  You have not shown me any hard physical evidence.

QuoteThis is EXACTLY what the brithers are doing, btw - simply discounting any argument or evidence that flies in the face of their cherished belief that Obama was not born in the USA.

I do not particularly cherish this.  Why would I cherish this sort of thing?

And you asked me before what is the point?  Well this is it really.  You keep attacking me so I feel the need to defend myself.  So now what I am doing is what the birthers are doing.

Quote"No it is evidence and contexts that you do not find convincing.  It is still evidence and contexts though."

That statement makes exactly as much sense when stated in response to someone showing a birther Obama's Hawaii birth certificate to refute their "evidence" that he was born in Kenya.

Ok so unless I find something that convinces you personally I make no sense and am a birther?  Oh for Godsake.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Valmy

#414
May 30, 2012, 02:18:19 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 30, 2012, 02:09:54 PM
There's a birther ad?

No.  Sorry bad English on my part.  The Birther Movement and the Willie Horton ad.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Valmy

#415
May 30, 2012, 02:19:00 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 30, 2012, 02:15:00 PM
Do you know who does?  Aside from The Donald.

Pretty sure nobody respectable in the Republican Party does...unless you consider this dufus from Arizona respectable.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Razgovory

#416
May 30, 2012, 02:19:52 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 30, 2012, 02:14:03 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 30, 2012, 02:06:30 PM
Rush Limbaugh (does he do birtherism?)

No.

Incorrect.  Limbaugh has no problem questioning Obama's citizenship.  http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201104110017
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Razgovory

#417
May 30, 2012, 02:27:02 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 30, 2012, 02:19:00 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 30, 2012, 02:15:00 PM
Do you know who does?  Aside from The Donald.

Pretty sure nobody respectable in the Republican Party does...unless you consider this dufus from Arizona respectable.

That and several congressmen and Senators.  Also about half the base.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Razgovory

#418
May 30, 2012, 02:31:41 PM
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

CountDeMoney

#419
May 30, 2012, 02:33:46 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 30, 2012, 02:19:00 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 30, 2012, 02:15:00 PM
Do you know who does?  Aside from The Donald.

Pretty sure nobody respectable in the Republican Party does...unless you consider this dufus from Arizona respectable.

Yeah luckily House GOP members like Rep. Cliff Stearns (R) of Florida, Rep. Vicky Hartzler (R) of Missouri or Rep. Mike Coffman (R) of Colorado aren't respectable.
Neither are North Carolina GOP candidates like Jim Pendergraph, or or Iowa State GOP Chairman Don Racheter.

Whew.  Thank Kenya they're not respectable members of the Republican Party.
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