Hawaii verifies Obama birth records to Arizona

[Berkut]

So can someone clarify for me, Berkut just objects to the claim that birthers are racist? or that they are dumb fucking retards?

Berkut agrees that they are dumb fucking retards, objects to the use of race baiting as a political tool.

Okay i can't really argue with that.

RACIST!

[Berkut]

Frankly I find the birther = racist logic pretty torturous as well.

It is right up there with the obama=not american logic.

[garbon]

http://cdn.trendhunterstatic.com/thumbs/hurricane-reporters-video-montage-cnn-reporters-struggle-in-gustavs-blast.jpeg

Seems like you need to learn when it is appropriate to use images and when it is not.

Well it is a CNN reporter

That doesn't mean it is appropriate.

[katmai]

"I'm gonna get me a shotgun and kill all the whities I see,
I'm gonna get me a shotgun and kill all the whities I see.
When I kill all the whities I see, then whitey he won't bother me,
I'm gonna get me a shotgun and kill all the whities I see.
Then I'll get a white woman who's wearing a navy blue sweater..

[Razgovory]

Frankly I find the birther = racist logic pretty torturous as well.

Well there's a shocker.

[CountDeMoney]

So can someone clarify for me, Berkut just objects to the claim that birthers are racist? or that they are dumb fucking retards?

Berkut agrees that they are dumb fucking retards, objects to the use of race baiting as a political tool.

Okay i can't really argue with that.

However, he discounts the argument that racist birthers are birthers due to racism.

[Razgovory]

Or that Republicans have been pandering to racists for decades.  And yes, I have a shred of evidence that they do.

[Admiral Yi]

Frankly I find the birther = racist logic pretty torturous as well.

Well there's a shocker.

And the obvious corrolary: anyone who doubts that birthers are racist does so because they are racist.

[Admiral Yi]

However, he discounts the argument that racist birthers are birthers due to racism.

He doesn't discount it, he thinks it's pure crap.

[Razgovory]

Frankly I find the birther = racist logic pretty torturous as well.

Well there's a shocker.

And the obvious corrolary: anyone who doubts that birthers are racist does so because they are racist.

Possibly, but thick headed, or simply needs their support are good reasons as well.  Let's face it, Birtherism is a major force in the GOP.  A significant percentage of the base ascribe to it and it gets them really hot and bothered.  If appealing to it means victory and attempting to refute it means defeat in a primary, which one do you think Republican politicians are going to do? So if some rubes in Mississippi don't really care for black people, you humor them.  It's a necessary evil.

[Admiral Yi]

Possibly, but thick headed, or simply needs their support are good reasons as well.  Let's face it, Birtherism is a major force in the GOP.  A significant percentage of the base ascribe to it and it gets them really hot and bothered.  If appealing to it means victory and attempting to refute it means defeat in a primary, which one do you think Republican politicians are going to do? So if some rubes in Mississippi don't really care for black people, you humor them.  It's a necessary evil.

Read your own post again Raz, this time with the assumption that birtherism is not a clever coverup of racism.

You're also got to deal with the unpleasant empirical fact that we just had a Republican primary in which none of the candidates made Obama's place of birth an issue.

[Valmy]

The onus is not on me to define what evidence WOULD be needed to prove that millions of people are racist, it is on those who are claiming they are racists.

Ok first: why?  Why does my opinion require evidence?  This is not a court of law I am not trying to convict anybody of anything.  They are taking actions that seem to be obviously racist to me.  And so what?

Doesn't that depend on the racism in question?

There are lots of things that evidence racism. One of those things is bringing up race a lot, where it does not appear to be relevant to the discussion.

But it is impossible for it to be a subtext?  It must be explicitly stated or it is impossible for racism to exist?

Of course there is a particular reason. He is a Democrat, and they are Republicans. That is the reason. It is a stupid reason, I grant you, but a reason nonetheless.

Hell, Seedy once accused the Shrubbery's wife of murdering her boyfriend when she was a teenager based on nothing more than the fact that she married a Republican. Dens claimed Clinton murdered his press secretary with zero evidence. The list of ridiculous claims made for political reasons without evidence or much sense is rather long, and goes back as long as there has been politics.

Yes...and so?  Sometimes the stupid reasons are racist or appeal to some other base quality in humanity.  This is one of those cases IMO.  And of course they are attacking him because he is a Democrat I am talking about using this particular strategy.

See, this is the ONLY actual evidence given. Obama is black, therefore attacks against him are racist.

Bullshit.  There are tons of attacks on Obama that are not racist.

Birther attacks - RACIST! We see it over and over and over again. Everytime someone on Languish attacks Obama, the race card is promptly and consistently played by the usual suspects. I call them on it, and we have 20 pages about what an asshole Berkut is for not seeing the obvious...and yet we still have zero evidence that any of this is significantly motivated by racism.

I don't think you are an asshole.  I just think the Birther stuff is racist.  If I thought you were an asshole I would not be writing this post.

So accusations that he is a Muslim - that is racism as well?

What about accusations that Romney is no Christian - is that racism, since it is clearly trying to accentuate that his not the same as the rest of us? Or is the attempt to cast a poltiical figure as "different" only racism if that figure is black, even though every single politician undergoes that same attack in one for or another, and some of them actually use their "he is just like us!" as a powerful political tool?

Nope.  Nowhere did I claim that every single attack on somebody that they are different is racism.  Just that this one appears to be.

So? Since when do poltical parties need evidence or reason to justify political attacks on their opponents?

Just because the attacks don't have logical or legal sense to them does not make them racist.

Yes because I said that it is illogical and therefore it is racist.

Wow, that is quite the strawman. I don't think I've accused you of anything of the kind. 

What I have said in regards to this in general is that I think the constant refrain of "RACISM!" in regards to criticism of Obama is race baiting. It is done by the political extreme of the Dems because it works - it gets even people like you or Tamas to just accept that birthers are racist because it "just makes sense" and after all, nobody likes those nutbars anyway, so it feels good to think the worst of them, validates how nutty they are, and of course how NOT nutty the rest of us are....

Ok then why call me out specifically?  And I have never been involved in the constant refrain of racism except in this specific case.

Then it is just a handy little fallacious leap for DG to come along and replace "birthers" with "Republicans" since, after all, they are all Republicans anyway, and they are a lot of Republicans, and here was this poll that says x percent of Republicans have some kind of doubt about Obama's birth...and now since we all know birthers are racists because we've repeated it over and over and over again...voila! Now Republicans are all racists!

Not DG and I rarely even engage DG in debate so why call me out?  And I do not think Birthers are racists because it has been repeated over and over again...it is because it looks like racism to me.

Hey, look at that....

No, I don't think YOU are doing this, but I think you are the intended victim.

Yes but exactly did it achieve?  It is hardly some surprise to me that there are racists in the US and they can be politically mobilized by the right ploy.

This is nothing new or special in political tactics though - it is standard fair, to try to paint the opposing party as ridiculous and extreme as possible, and part of the effort to convince the middle that the extreme is the party is to make the extreme as onerous as possible.

What is funny about this is that the extreme in this case is already pretty amazingly unpleasant without any need to craft all this racism nonsense.

There is no need to craft any racist nonsense.  There is plenty of it already existing in this country.  I guess I fail to see why you can accuse these people of being amazingly unpleasant and idiots and every other negative thing but oh dear do not think anything they are doing is racist!

[Valmy]

Frankly I find the birther = racist logic pretty torturous as well.

Well there's a shocker.

And the obvious corrolary: anyone who doubts that birthers are racist does so because they are racist.

Nobody is claiming that.

[Admiral Yi]

Nobody is claiming that.

Then how do you interpret Raz's comment about being shocked?

[CountDeMoney]

However, he discounts the argument that racist birthers are birthers due to racism.

He doesn't discount it, he thinks it's pure crap.

There would be no birthers if there were no negroes in Der Weiss Haus.