Tamas, I have found you a way out of Hungary!

[Monoriu]

Why would HK be a better place to make a career than a big Canadian city anyway? I bet even a civil service job in Canada would be better than yours.

For a fresh graduate, Hong Kong is infinitely better.  Employers typically hire everybody in sight.  It is very common for large firms to hire a 21 year old fresh out of university with no work experience whatsoever and give him a management trainee position.  They won't require references (most graduates won't have them anyway).  Instead, firms design elaborate interview and examination processes to screen candidates. 

For a middle manager/professional with 10-20 years of experience working in Hong Kong, he cannot transfer his skills and experience to Canada.  There is absolutely no way Canadian firms can match his Hong Kong salary (which could be very high).  Canadian firms typically demand local experience, local networks and local qualifications. 

I think the problem is that the mass exodus of Hong Kongers to Canada during the 80s and 90s was very atypical.  A lot of immigrants from other places have nothing and therefore can start from scratch easily.  The ones from Hong Kong however were typically the cream of the crop of their home country.  Imagine an accountant who made mountains of cash in Hong Kong and expected to achieve the same in Canada overnight.  Not going to happen.

[Razgovory]

You can always join the canadian military and go to afghanistan and claim 2400 meters kills, never mind that you used a .338 sub-minute of an angle gun, and hit the fucker only with your third shot. Three shots one kill. The question is why in hell that loser stayed in there and didn't run for cover after the first shot.

I guess that's what happen at those distances. A bullet hits somewhere around you and its already subsonic, sounding like if someone is throwing rocks at you in a 45 degree angle, and no gunshot sound or supersonic crack whatsoever.

You need to focus more.

[Zanza]

For a fresh graduate, Hong Kong is infinitely better.  Employers typically hire everybody in sight.  It is very common for large firms to hire a 21 year old fresh out of university with no work experience whatsoever and give him a management trainee position.  They won't require references (most graduates won't have them anyway).  Instead, firms design elaborate interview and examination processes to screen candidates.

Two points: First, we are talking about a career. A career does not stop with getting hired. You actually have to advance eventually. Which I imagine is as hard in Hong Kong as in Canada. Perhaps even harder as I could imagine there are steeper hierarchies in Hong Kong. Second, graduates with no experience must be hired in Canada too. After all, someone eventually has to hire a graduate or the economy will quickly run out of employees. :p Even if the job advert says they want someone with 2 years experience, they will still hire a graduate if they can't get someone with experience. And I am sure that there are plenty of management trainee programs for graduates in Canada too.

I think you are trying to rationalize your decision based on career chances, when you actually just went back because Hong Kong is your home. Which is a perfectly fine reason in itself.

For a middle manager/professional with 10-20 years of experience working in Hong Kong, he cannot transfer his skills and experience to Canada.

Why not? I know managers and professionals who went from Germany to all over the world (including Hong Kong and Canada) and they could transfer their skills.

There is absolutely no way Canadian firms can match his Hong Kong salary (which could be very high).

Why not? Canada is a richer country than Hong Kong. Why shouldn't they be able to match the salary? Because of that marginal tax rate you always speak of? Canada probably has much cheaper housing and a higher life quality so that levels out.

[Richard Hakluyt]

I've been looking up a few figures on Hong Kong, the average wage seems to be about £1,000 per month ($HK 11,000) and the GDP per capita using market prices is about $US 32,000.

Meanwhile the average wage in the UK is just over £2,000 per month and the GDP per capita using market prices is about $US 35,000.

So, the two economies are much on a par for wealth generated per person; but there is an interesting discrepancy in workers pay rates.

[Zanza]

I've been looking up a few figures on Hong Kong, the average wage seems to be about £1,000 per month ($HK 11,000) and the GDP per capita using market prices is about $US 32,000.

Meanwhile the average wage in the UK is just over £2,000 per month and the GDP per capita using market prices is about $US 35,000.

So, the two economies are much on a par for wealth generated per person; but there is an interesting discrepancy in workers pay rates.

So that means the average person that doesn't make a great career (e.g. Mono) loses out by living in Hong Kong compared to average person s in the UK (and probably Canada).

[Monoriu]

My sense is that the wage structure in Hong Kong is very different from the one in the UK or Canada.  In Hong Kong, 50-60% of the working population make absolutely crap wages.  A full time janitor who works his ass off can make as little as US$6k per year.  A construction worker will be lucky to double that. 

But the rest can make huge sums by western standards.  The average wage figure distorts the real picture. 

[Monoriu]

Two points: First, we are talking about a career. A career does not stop with getting hired. You actually have to advance eventually. Which I imagine is as hard in Hong Kong as in Canada. Perhaps even harder as I could imagine there are steeper hierarchies in Hong Kong. Second, graduates with no experience must be hired in Canada too. After all, someone eventually has to hire a graduate or the economy will quickly run out of employees. :p Even if the job advert says they want someone with 2 years experience, they will still hire a graduate if they can't get someone with experience. And I am sure that there are plenty of management trainee programs for graduates in Canada too.

The management trainee programmes in Canada typically cater to the guys in their mid/late 20s with some experience, be it part time job, volunteering, world tour or what not.  Not 21 year olds with absolutely nothing. 

Why not? I know managers and professionals who went from Germany to all over the world (including Hong Kong and Canada) and they could transfer their skills.

I think we are talking about two different situations.  It is easy to move to another country if your employer sends you there.  It is a totally different story to quit the job, move to another country, and seek employment in a totally different environment. 

Why not? Canada is a richer country than Hong Kong. Why shouldn't they be able to match the salary? Because of that marginal tax rate you always speak of? Canada probably has much cheaper housing and a higher life quality so that levels out.

As I said, Canadian firms expect local experience, local qualifications and local contacts.  Whatever happens in HK is usually not relevant.

[Grey Fox]

It's all your fault because you were an asocial asshole when you where here.

Shoulda have made some friends.

My work place has a lot of Indian engineers, they're not white, they make good money.

[The Larch]

Two points: First, we are talking about a career. A career does not stop with getting hired. You actually have to advance eventually. Which I imagine is as hard in Hong Kong as in Canada. Perhaps even harder as I could imagine there are steeper hierarchies in Hong Kong. Second, graduates with no experience must be hired in Canada too. After all, someone eventually has to hire a graduate or the economy will quickly run out of employees. :p Even if the job advert says they want someone with 2 years experience, they will still hire a graduate if they can't get someone with experience. And I am sure that there are plenty of management trainee programs for graduates in Canada too.

The management trainee programmes in Canada typically cater to the guys in their mid/late 20s with some experience, be it part time job, volunteering, world tour or what not.  Not 21 year olds with absolutely nothing. 

Why not? I know managers and professionals who went from Germany to all over the world (including Hong Kong and Canada) and they could transfer their skills.

I think we are talking about two different situations.  It is easy to move to another country if your employer sends you there.  It is a totally different story to quit the job, move to another country, and seek employment in a totally different environment. 

Why not? Canada is a richer country than Hong Kong. Why shouldn't they be able to match the salary? Because of that marginal tax rate you always speak of? Canada probably has much cheaper housing and a higher life quality so that levels out.

As I said, Canadian firms expect local experience, local qualifications and local contacts.  Whatever happens in HK is usually not relevant.

So, Mono, how are you doing in your top management position in HK then?

[DisturbedPervert]

So, Mono, how are you doing in your top management position in HK then?

He's seems to be doing well enough to travel all over the world whenever he wants, and thinks nothing of jetting off to Japan for a weekend so his wife can rent a car and play at driving.

[Savonarola]

Why don't you like Canada?

If I chose to stay in Canada, I would be chopping salmon heads somewhere.

Had you moved to the other coast you could be clubbing baby harp seals instead.   

[Richard Hakluyt]

So, Mono, how are you doing in your top management position in HK then?

He's seems to be doing well enough to travel all over the world whenever he wants, and thinks nothing of jetting off to Japan for a weekend so his wife can rent a car and play at driving.

Yes, note how he frequents first-class restaurants as well; and then tries to cover that up by hyping how ordered tap water 

[The Larch]

So, Mono, how are you doing in your top management position in HK then?

He's seems to be doing well enough to travel all over the world whenever he wants, and thinks nothing of jetting off to Japan for a weekend so his wife can rent a car and play at driving.

Yes, note how he frequents first-class restaurants as well; and then tries to cover that up by hyping how ordered tap water 

I was not talking about money, but about career advancement. 

[Malthus]

Meh, I moved from being a pottery assistant to lawyer by way of a BA in anthropology. Obviously it is possible to make a good wage in Canada without a ton of relevant focus and experience! 

[PDH]

Meh, I moved from being a pottery assistant to lawyer by way of a BA in anthropology. Obviously it is possible to make a good wage in Canada without a ton of relevant focus and experience! 

  Not everyone has your secret jewish connections...