Tenn. Science Bill Allowing Creationism In Schools Passes State Senate

Started by jimmy olsen, March 22, 2012, 01:28:26 AM

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Viking

#30
March 24, 2012, 12:04:56 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 24, 2012, 12:00:43 PM
I understand that I don't have wiki bookmarked to give me arguments and that you do.  Still, if you are happy with your Google hits numbers and what ever comfort that provides you, go for it.  We all have our little crutches to get us through our lives.

You don't have a wiki bookmarked (I don't either, I just googled ""Big Daddy" "Chick Tract""). You do however have this



to tell you what to think.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Ideologue

#31
March 24, 2012, 12:10:37 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 22, 2012, 12:36:22 PM
Quote from: Fate on March 22, 2012, 11:22:46 AM
Those aren't good jobs. They're nothing but scam artist professions that are little better than lawyers or Republicans.

There is no lower scum than the counselor who would advise children to become lawyers.

Concur.
Kinemalogue
Current reviews: The 'Burbs (9/10); Gremlins 2: The New Batch (9/10); John Wick: Chapter 2 (9/10); A Cure For Wellness (4/10)

Razgovory

#32
March 24, 2012, 12:13:20 PM
As I said, we all have our little crutches.  My crutch is religious, yours seems to be intellectual.  It's not great shame to have a little help in the areas we have problems with.  Carry on.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Iormlund

#33
March 24, 2012, 12:22:49 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 24, 2012, 11:37:42 AM
Are any of them wikis?

A Catholic wiki would be kind of weird. I could see that with other denominations but the Church is a very hierarchical institution.

Viking

#34
March 24, 2012, 12:51:06 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on March 24, 2012, 12:22:49 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 24, 2012, 11:37:42 AM
Are any of them wikis?

A Catholic wiki would be kind of weird. I could see that with other denominations but the Church is a very hierarchical institution.

Here it is..

The English Language Catechism of the Catholic Church

only, like Conservapedia, it has only one user, ModSuperuser: Ratzinger1927

First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

garbon

#35
March 27, 2012, 10:39:24 PM
I don't understand. Don't they know that with science you are allowed to view theories with skepticism and critical thinking is encouraged?
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Valmy

#36
March 27, 2012, 10:41:38 PM Last Edit: March 27, 2012, 10:46:11 PM by Valmy
Quote from: Viking on March 24, 2012, 10:53:59 AM

Meh the difference here is there is lots of popular support for the creationism thing and we have popularly elected school boards.  We have to let the people have their way to some extent.  I think it can be managed in a reasonable and educational way, as it was at least when I was in school.  Obviously I would never vote for anybody who advocated teaching creationism in schools but it is hardly some sort of disaster.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Razgovory

#37
March 27, 2012, 11:51:47 PM
Seems a bit unfair to compare modern neurology with phrenology.  It was considered fairly scientific back in 1820's.   It lasted longer in the fringe world.  It could be seen as a "proto-science" that didn't pan out.  Alchemy is an interesting example as it sort of a pre-scientific method of chemistry.  It did pave the way for modern Chemistry.  So did Astrology for a more limited sense, though in a more limited sense.  I don't think anyone every considered "magic" as a replacement for physics.  At least not in the West for several centuries.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

jimmy olsen

#38
March 28, 2012, 01:40:59 AM
Quote from: Viking on March 24, 2012, 10:53:59 AM

I would love to learn alchemy and magic in school.
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

Viking

#39
March 28, 2012, 02:16:01 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 27, 2012, 11:51:47 PM
Seems a bit unfair to compare modern neurology with phrenology.  It was considered fairly scientific back in 1820's.   It lasted longer in the fringe world.  It could be seen as a "proto-science" that didn't pan out.  Alchemy is an interesting example as it sort of a pre-scientific method of chemistry.  It did pave the way for modern Chemistry.  So did Astrology for a more limited sense, though in a more limited sense.  I don't think anyone every considered "magic" as a replacement for physics.  At least not in the West for several centuries.

Phrenology is pseudoscience, and was pseudoscience at the time. Like creationism it did science backwards by identifying features they falsely thought were associated with certain races and ethnicities and declaring that these features were associated with desireable mental traits and skills.

Regardless, when an idea is debunked is irrelevant. There are still phrenologists out there and they are just as ridiculous as astrologers.

People don't think that astrology, magic and phrenology are decent comparisons for creationism is because they erroniouslly think that creationism has any scientific backing. There is no case for any of these pseudosciences, only creationism has religious dogma backing it and consequently hasn't died.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Viking

#40
March 28, 2012, 02:17:29 AM
Quote from: garbon on March 27, 2012, 10:39:24 PM
I don't understand. Don't they know that with science you are allowed to view theories with skepticism and critical thinking is encouraged?

They think that science is just another dogma like religion. They don't understand that science is a process not an assertion of fact without evidence like religion is.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Viking

#41
March 28, 2012, 02:23:55 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 27, 2012, 10:41:38 PM

Meh the difference here is there is lots of popular support for the creationism thing and we have popularly elected school boards.  We have to let the people have their way to some extent.  I think it can be managed in a reasonable and educational way, as it was at least when I was in school.  Obviously I would never vote for anybody who advocated teaching creationism in schools but it is hardly some sort of disaster.

The problem here is that there are people who time to time manage to get creationist majorities elected to these school boards and state curriculum boards (Dover, Pa, Kansas and Texas most recently). These people do this and try to fuck with the biology textbooks. The National Center for Science Education does monitor and combat this. It's still happening and in the last week Tennessee has passed another so called academic freedom bill (http://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/billinfo/BillSummaryArchive.aspx?BillNumber=HB0368&ga=107) singling out evolution and global warming with "strengths and weaknesses" language.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

11B4V

#42
March 28, 2012, 02:27:05 AM
The church is evil and there is evil afoot. :mad:

http://www.care2.com/causes/texas-pastor-kills-neighbors-cat.html
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

CountDeMoney

#43
March 28, 2012, 05:43:46 AM
Quote from: Viking on March 28, 2012, 02:16:01 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 27, 2012, 11:51:47 PM
Seems a bit unfair to compare modern neurology with phrenology.  It was considered fairly scientific back in 1820's.   It lasted longer in the fringe world.  It could be seen as a "proto-science" that didn't pan out.  Alchemy is an interesting example as it sort of a pre-scientific method of chemistry.  It did pave the way for modern Chemistry.  So did Astrology for a more limited sense, though in a more limited sense.  I don't think anyone every considered "magic" as a replacement for physics.  At least not in the West for several centuries.

Phrenology is pseudoscience, and was pseudoscience at the time. Like creationism it did science backwards by identifying features they falsely thought were associated with certain races and ethnicities and declaring that these features were associated with desireable mental traits and skills.

Regardless, when an idea is debunked is irrelevant. There are still phrenologists out there and they are just as ridiculous as astrologers.

People don't think that astrology, magic and phrenology are decent comparisons for creationism is because they erroniouslly think that creationism has any scientific backing. There is no case for any of these pseudosciences, only creationism has religious dogma backing it and consequently hasn't died.

Everybody go read Stephen Jay Gould's (may he rest in peace) The Mismeasure of Man.

Valmy

#44
March 28, 2012, 08:12:03 AM Last Edit: March 28, 2012, 08:28:24 AM by Valmy
Quote from: Viking on March 28, 2012, 02:23:55 AM
The problem here is that there are people who time to time manage to get creationist majorities elected to these school boards and state curriculum boards (Dover, Pa, Kansas and Texas most recently).

And we will roll them back when they get booted out.  Unless we are going to re-write the Constitutions of those states or something.  I just think they can be appeased without them doing too much damage to science curriculum (and to be perfectly honest unless there is a standardized test involved it is not going to be a super big part except for kids who specifically want to study science).
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."
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