A tearful Putin claims Russian election victory

[mongers]

Which would you rather be?  Rich and powerful in an unfree state or poor and impotent in a free one?

Which of those describes Putin's Russia?  Even the rich are only as powerful as their sponsor, whoever that is, in the Kremlin or FSB allows them to be.

Did you see that recent 4-part bbc documentary about Putin, there's a classic scene were he descends on a cement factor at the centre of a conflict between the workers and the billionaire owner; he summons them to a meeting and insists the owner reopens to factory, demands he sign it then and there, and you can almost see the fear in the eyes of this hugely wealthy man.  Of whom in western democracies would be routinely fated by the political classes.

[Sheilbh]

I missed it, which is a shame.  I heard it was brilliant.

[mongers]

I missed it, which is a shame.  I heard it was brilliant.

Yes it was. The insider talking heads about Georgia were fascinating. 

edit:
Looks like a couple of people have uploaded the whole series onto youtube here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-NgW3Q7OYU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vS1sGhdt-Xk

best to watch them quick before the bbc takes them down.

[Razgovory]

Which would you rather be?  Rich and powerful in an unfree state or poor and impotent in a free one?

Which of those describes Putin's Russia?  Even the rich are only as powerful as their sponsor, whoever that is, in the Kremlin or FSB allows them to be.

I think the standard of living has increased rather dramatically since 1999.  Rich and powerful is more broad though, that was addressing my suspicions of libertarian conservatism.

There is a dichotomy here that has haunted the US since it's birth.  The conflict where a man will shout about any perceived transgression of their rights while being uninterested in the plight of a neighbor who lives in chattel slavery.  Libertarianism of the Conservative variety embodies some of these problems.  It is inherently selfish and regards property rights over political rights.  Or perhaps it simply does not care about the rights of others.

[DGuller]

Which would you rather be?  Rich and powerful in an unfree state or poor and impotent in a free one?

Which of those describes Putin's Russia?  Even the rich are only as powerful as their sponsor, whoever that is, in the Kremlin or FSB allows them to be.

I think the standard of living has increased rather dramatically since 1999.  Rich and powerful is more broad though, that was addressing my suspicions of libertarian conservatism.

There is a dichotomy here that has haunted the US since it's birth.  The conflict where a man will shout about any perceived transgression of their rights while being uninterested in the plight of a neighbor who lives in chattel slavery.  Libertarianism of the Conservative variety embodies some of these problems.  It is inherently selfish and regards property rights over political rights.  Or perhaps it simply does not care about the rights of others.

Free market would've freed the slaves if we just gave it a chance.  Slaves would've weighed their options, and then decided that being free would be more profitable than being enslaved.

[Sheilbh]

I think the standard of living has increased rather dramatically since 1999.  Rich and powerful is more broad though, that was addressing my suspicions of libertarian conservatism.

There is a dichotomy here that has haunted the US since it's birth.  The conflict where a man will shout about any perceived transgression of their rights while being uninterested in the plight of a neighbor who lives in chattel slavery.  Libertarianism of the Conservative variety embodies some of these problems.  It is inherently selfish and regards property rights over political rights.  Or perhaps it simply does not care about the rights of others.

Standard of living's hugely increased.  As I said earlier I think there's many good reasons for Russians to vote Putin (not least the lack of effective opposition, which is by design).

I think you're wrong on the rest.  You've an axe to grind, which is fine.  But I think you've gone off in the wrong direction with this whole Putin-Libertarianism-Conservatism-Undemocracy tangent.  I just don't get it.

[Sheilbh]

On Libertarianism and the Presidency, Cato are giving free downloads of the Cult of the Presidency, which is worth reading:
http://www.cato.org/cult-of-the-presidency/