Maryland, model of gun control, torn asunder by activist Federal judge!

[Admiral Yi]

I thought it was Red Auerbach.

Are you stoned?  Red looked like Yogi Berra.  Short bald dude with no neck.

[CountDeMoney]

The cigar threw me.

[grumbler]

The cigar threw me.

It threw me, too.  I thought it was Fidel Castro.

[The Brain]

Do you think that openly supporting torture is strategically wise?

I don't see an intrinsic problem with it. The propaganda issue is moot, we could give people in Guantanamo a pet kitten and steak oscar for dinner every night and the propaganda leaflets brain-dead Arabs read over in the Middle East would still say they were being rape-tortured to death by Jewish sorcerors.

Who cares about what Arabs think?

Not me, that's my point. But they are the only relevant reason I can think of to be coy about whether we are using "harsh" methods or not. Who else is there? The Europeans? I care less about what they say than the Arabs, the Arabs at least (a small number of them) actually do things, Europeans just pussy bleed so there is even less reason to give a fuck what the Europeans have to say.

It indicates a lack of judgment, which makes it a sign of weakness. I am not convinced that it is in America's interest to appear weak.

[OttoVonBismarck]

It indicates a lack of judgment, which makes it a sign of weakness. I am not convinced that it is in America's interest to appear weak.

No, things like extraordinary rendition and waterboarding don't really show a lack of judgment or make America look weak. I think some people who are uncomfortable with the morality of those things try to come up with fanciful reasons for why it isn't smart without actually coming out and saying "I think it is wrong" because they don't want to be lumped together with tie-dye wearing hippies. Also members of this crowd: the people who make the logically impossible argument that torture "never works."

[The Brain]

It indicates a lack of judgment, which makes it a sign of weakness. I am not convinced that it is in America's interest to appear weak.

No, things like extraordinary rendition and waterboarding don't really show a lack of judgment or make America look weak. I think some people who are uncomfortable with the morality of those things try to come up with fanciful reasons for why it isn't smart without actually coming out and saying "I think it is wrong" because they don't want to be lumped together with tie-dye wearing hippies. Also members of this crowd: the people who make the logically impossible argument that torture "never works."

I didn't talk about using torture.