How Democrats Can Learn Populism

[crazy canuck]

There's a French sociologist who argues that this is all down to traditional family structure.  I wasn't sold on it and don't have his book any more so I can't quite remember the details but it was a very interesting read.

I think it all comes down to the question of whether the political tent can be made big enough and most importantly whether that big tent can be maintained over time.  The factors which make the tent maintainable will undoubtedly vary across electoral jurisdictions.

Here in BC the populist coaltion on the right usually is able to maintain a tent just big enough to keep the left out of government.  But every once in a while there is a stumble and the left comes in.   The the coalition realizes it needs to rebuild its tent.  Rinse Repeat over the decades.

[Jacob]

Sheilbh, was that the guy who was arguing that different societies can be understood by looking at individual, family and state? And the argument was something like that in the North European model (Scandinavian and parts of Germany) society was organized such that the state guaranteed that individuals could function independently of their families. While in the US it's all about keeping the state out of anything to do with the family or individuals, and in other places yet it's all about the state being used to keep the individual properly in in line within the family structure? ... or something like that?

[Sheilbh]

Sheilbh, was that the guy who was arguing that different societies can be understood by looking at individual, family and state? And the argument was something like that in the North European model (Scandinavian and parts of Germany) society was organized such that the state guaranteed that individuals could function independently of their families. While in the US it's all about keeping the state out of anything to do with the family or individuals, and in other places yet it's all about the state being used to keep the individual properly in in line within the family structure? ... or something like that?

No.  That was a paper put forward by the Scandinavian governments.  It drew a lot on an essay I've not read, but really want to, called 'Pippi Longstocking and the moral logic of the Swedish welfare state'.  Pippi's the ultimate individual living her own life.  She's a rebellious kid living without a family, but with monkey called George.  Apparently the French translation, for example, tones down her anti-authoritarian streak a lot

[Edit:  That's right though.  The Nordic governments said there was a triangle of state-family-individual.  US policy and society was all about the family-individual axis; the Scandinavians emphasised the individual-state axis; the Germans were based on state-family.]

The families determining political structure was by a French sociologist, Emmanuel Todd, drawing on other research.  I think a big part of it was to do with family structure and particularly traditional inheritance rules shaping future political culture.  I can't remember the argument, but this paper seems to build on it:
http://www.coleurop.be/content/studyprogrammes/eco/publications/beer/beer10.pdf
Which I'll have a read on to refresh my memory because it was a really interesting idea.

[Edit: One other point I remember Todd making was how it'll be interesting to see how his ideas bear out in other parts of the world, like Africa, but especially the Islamic world which historically has quite different family structure I think.]

[Oexmelin]

No.  That was a paper put forward by the Scandinavian governments.  It drew a lot on an essay I've not read, but really want to, called 'Pippi Longstocking and the moral logic of the Swedish welfare state'.  Pippi's the ultimate individual living her own life.  She's a rebellious kid living without a family, but with monkey called George.  Apparently the French translation, for example, tones down her anti-authoritarian streak a lot

I grew up on Pippi Longstocking (which might explain a lot  - she's known in French as Fifi Brindacier) and it didn't seem toned down to me.  All the vilains in the show were figures of authority, and the neighboring kids were being reined in by their conformist parents. (The monkey was actually called Mr. Neilson / M. Dupont).

The families determining political structure was by a French sociologist, Emmanuel Todd, drawing on other research.  I think a big part of it was to do with family structure and particularly traditional inheritance rules shaping future political culture.  I can't remember the argument, but this paper seems to build on it:

The problem with Todd is that he infuses a lot of rigidity to his model (which is usually a problem with French sociologists ) by ascribing causal logic to what was initially descriptive. That being said, the idea that redistributive structures within societies (which in many cases depend upon patronage, itself dependant upon kinship) is not terribly new. What most Western societies have succeeded in doing is to mask, for a long time, such redistributive patterns under all sorts of processes, and in turn allowing such processes to be eventually (but only so very recently) decoupled from their origins. The research of political scientist Sawicki is on that regard really interesting.

[Malthus]

I'm not sure I'd want to base my understanding of society on Pippi Longstocking, whether her monkey was named  George, Mr. Neilson, or M. Dupont. 

[CountDeMoney]

I grew up on Pippi Longstocking (which might explain a lot 

Certainly explains that cock in your mouth.

[Jacob]

I grew up on Pippi Longstocking (which might explain a lot 

Certainly explains that cock in your mouth.

I guess you've looked everywhere else for it, so you assume Oex has it?

[Eddie Teach]

Seedy's stylist was a huge Pippi Longstocking fan.

[crazy canuck]

Seedy's stylist was a huge Pippi Longstocking fan.

What do you mean "was"?

[Jacob]

Seedy's stylist was a huge Pippi Longstocking fan.

What do you mean "was"?

Well... the stylist may be a fan, but seedy doesn't have the hair for it anymore.

[Malthus]

I gotta admit, I'm interested in knowing what version of Pippi Longstocking Seedy was reading - I can't really remember Pippi that well, but I do not recall any explicitly x-rated features in them ... 

[crazy canuck]

Seedy's stylist was a huge Pippi Longstocking fan.

What do you mean "was"?

Well... the stylist may be a fan, but seedy doesn't have the hair for it anymore.

I didnt think he was going for the haircut.

[CountDeMoney]

Seedy's stylist was a huge Pippi Longstocking fan.

What do you mean "was"?

Well... the stylist may be a fan, but seedy doesn't have the hair for it anymore.

My hair is chock full of heady body and bounce goodness.

[Jacob]

My hair is chock full of heady body and bounce goodness.

Like this:

[CountDeMoney]

Touche.

And fuck you.