The Crisis, newspapers and Hollywood: scientists, to me!

Started by Pedrito, February 17, 2012, 04:07:12 AM

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Pedrito

In light of the recent developments of the financial crisis hitting Europe as a whole and Italy in particular, I am pondering about the role of economic and generalist newspapers during the next months.

Everyday life and Hollywood have always taught me that, as a homeless, paper is extremely important as thermal insulator, and should be used under the garments to protect from cold and wind during long winter nights spent on park benches. And I've always thought that, for ease of use, one should insert the flat sheets of paper under the shirt and cover mainly the chest and belly.

It happened to me recently, though, to watch the scientifically accurate Hollywood movie The Day After Tomorrow, in which movie a hobo crumples the newspapers' sheets up to balls and puts them balls under his everyday attire. This way of treating the press has left me wondering about my future, and I need the help of scientists.

Aiming at the best insulation possible, what's best? To use flat sheets of paper, or to crumple them up? If flat sheets are best, is there a limit of thickness over which adding other sheets is useless, or is it best to apply the "the more the merrier" rule?

Thank you scientists, my future well-being rests in your brains!

L.
b / h = h / b+h


27 Zoupa Points, redeemable at the nearest liquor store! :woot:

Brazen

The homeless have for generations relied on newspaper to pad out their clothing and corrugated cardboard to insulate them from the cold ground. I suspect they're on to something.

Certainly crumpled newspaper would create more "dead air" per sheet of paper which would offer you the best insulation per publication ratio, unless your clothing is so tight you can only fit flat sheets in.

As you're not impoverished or homeless, I recommend a good down coat instead. Or just turn the heating up a bit.

Viking

Quote from: Pedrito on February 17, 2012, 04:07:12 AM
In light of the recent developments of the financial crisis hitting Europe as a whole and Italy in particular, I am pondering about the role of economic and generalist newspapers during the next months.

Everyday life and Hollywood have always taught me that, as a homeless, paper is extremely important as thermal insulator, and should be used under the garments to protect from cold and wind during long winter nights spent on park benches. And I've always thought that, for ease of use, one should insert the flat sheets of paper under the shirt and cover mainly the chest and belly.

It happened to me recently, though, to watch the scientifically accurate Hollywood movie The Day After Tomorrow, in which movie a hobo crumples the newspapers' sheets up to balls and puts them balls under his everyday attire. This way of treating the press has left me wondering about my future, and I need the help of scientists.

Aiming at the best insulation possible, what's best? To use flat sheets of paper, or to crumple them up? If flat sheets are best, is there a limit of thickness over which adding other sheets is useless, or is it best to apply the "the more the merrier" rule?

Thank you scientists, my future well-being rests in your brains!

L.

The thermal conductivity of air is much lower than that of dry organic material like paper. Basically heat moves through air much slower than it does through paper. Assuming conditions of no convection (no air moving inside the hobo's overcoat) and minimal radiation (temperature within 50 ish degrees C of outside) then conduction is the only large heat transfer mechanism. Basically the hobo is turning his overcoat into a thermos flask where the air pockets act like the low pressure sections in the thermos flak.

So, yes, crumpling the paper up gives better insulation for less weight.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Viking

Quote from: Brazen on February 17, 2012, 05:33:01 AM
The homeless have for generations relied on newspaper to pad out their clothing and corrugated cardboard to insulate them from the cold ground. I suspect they're on to something.

Certainly crumpled newspaper would create more "dead air" per sheet of paper which would offer you the best insulation per publication ratio, unless your clothing is so tight you can only fit flat sheets in.

As you're not impoverished or homeless, I recommend a good down coat instead. Or just turn the heating up a bit.

That last line is the most english thing I have read in a long long time.

BTW, the numbers paper has a thermal conductivity of 0.05 W/(m*K) while air has 0.024 W(m*K) so it moves heat twice as fast. Water content matters, though the higher the temperature the greater the effect of humidity. N.B. The numbers here for air is at STP as temperature falls the thermal conductivity for air will drop.

Paper is a very good insulator so if durability were an important factor rather than mere short term insulation I'd consider using flat sheets if I were willing to bear (pun intended) extra weight.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

PDH

In a pinch, one could light the newspaper inside their clothing on fire - that would keep one much warmer for a period of time.
I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.
-Umberto Eco

-------
"I'm pretty sure my level of depression has nothing to do with how much of a fucking asshole you are."

-CdM

grumbler

Quote from: PDH on February 17, 2012, 08:14:29 AM
In a pinch, one could light the newspaper inside their clothing on fire - that would keep one much warmer for a period of time.
:yes:

Give a man a fire, and he is warm for a day.  Set a man on fire, and he is warm for the rest of his life.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

KRonn

Since I don't usually have much newspaper around partly because I read the news on line, I find myself a bit deprived. So to comensate for my lacking, I have to make do with long underwear and layers under a sweater or sweatshirt to keep warm.  ;)   

DGuller

I concur with the others.  A crumpled newspapers seems like a worse conductor of heat to me than a sheet of newspaper, due to the air pockets it creates.

Pedrito

So the movie was correct! Hollywood science wins again.

L.
b / h = h / b+h


27 Zoupa Points, redeemable at the nearest liquor store! :woot:

Viking

Quote from: Pedrito on February 17, 2012, 11:51:48 AM
So the movie was correct! Hollywood science wins again.

L.

Note, that was the only thing factual in that movie.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Maximus

Flat paper would be more airtight though. Depends on the clothing whether you would need that but if so I would recommend a layer of flat over a layer of crumpled, essentially a makeshift corrugated cardboard.

Darth Wagtaros

The Day After Tomorrow. One of the stupidest, preachy suckfests to have been shat out of the Hollywood Hypocracy Factory in years.
PDH!

Pedrito

Quote from: Viking on February 17, 2012, 12:50:03 PM
Quote from: Pedrito on February 17, 2012, 11:51:48 AM
So the movie was correct! Hollywood science wins again.

L.

Note, that was the only thing factual in that movie.
Nah, cannot believe you.

L.
b / h = h / b+h


27 Zoupa Points, redeemable at the nearest liquor store! :woot:

Viking

Quote from: Maximus on February 17, 2012, 01:15:56 PM
Flat paper would be more airtight though. Depends on the clothing whether you would need that but if so I would recommend a layer of flat over a layer of crumpled, essentially a makeshift corrugated cardboard.

In a case where convection is happening (think wind chill) the math changes. Note industrial insulation usually consists of a layer of rockwool type low thermal conductivity matter set within a non-permable outer membrane which radiates very little, something like laminated aluminium foil. So, yes it can fail if the wind blows through it, but cover the crumpled newspaper with a blanket and that is orders of magnitude better as an insulator. 
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

grumbler

Quote from: Viking on February 18, 2012, 12:31:33 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 17, 2012, 01:15:56 PM
Flat paper would be more airtight though. Depends on the clothing whether you would need that but if so I would recommend a layer of flat over a layer of crumpled, essentially a makeshift corrugated cardboard.

In a case where convection is happening (think wind chill) the math changes. Note industrial insulation usually consists of a layer of rockwool type low thermal conductivity matter set within a non-permable outer membrane which radiates very little, something like laminated aluminium foil. So, yes it can fail if the wind blows through it, but cover the crumpled newspaper with a blanket and that is orders of magnitude better as an insulator. 

Agreed, though the OP specifically noted that he was wearing the newspapers under his clothing, so your condition would be met.

Max would be correct if the clothing involved were loosely-woven enough that an additional wind barrier was needed.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!