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Obama considering steep nuclear arms cuts

Started by Kleves, February 15, 2012, 11:15:02 AM

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Razgovory

Quote from: Siege on February 19, 2012, 12:21:03 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on February 19, 2012, 12:00:10 AM
Quote from: Siege on February 18, 2012, 11:59:12 PM
I want to eat oreos cookies in a bowl of cereal and milk topped with condensated milk.

Be the change you wish to see in the world.

Point is, life is not about what we want to do, but about what is right for us to do.
I don't want stupid sugary calories in my body.

Well make up your goddamn mind!
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Ideologue

Quote from: fahdiz on February 19, 2012, 02:00:27 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 18, 2012, 06:07:27 PM
No, but they are not unrelated either, since genocide can only be committed by people who want to.

That is an interesting assumption.

They're just going to Madagascar, where they'll be happy.  THEY'RE JUST GOING TO MADAGASCAR.
Kinemalogue
Current reviews: The 'Burbs (9/10); Gremlins 2: The New Batch (9/10); John Wick: Chapter 2 (9/10); A Cure For Wellness (4/10)

grumbler

Quote from: fahdiz on February 19, 2012, 02:00:27 PM
That is an interesting assumption.
That's an interesting misuse of the word "assumption." 

Motive is the distinction between genocide and murder that is not genocide.  That's not an "assumption," that's a definition.  An assumption would be something alone the lines of "it is part of the human condition to be capable of killing people simply because one wants to eliminate their 'race,' religion, or ethnicity."
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

garbon

Quote from: grumbler on February 20, 2012, 08:15:30 AM
Quote from: fahdiz on February 19, 2012, 02:00:27 PM
That is an interesting assumption.
That's an interesting misuse of the word "assumption." 

Motive is the distinction between genocide and murder that is not genocide.  That's not an "assumption," that's a definition.  An assumption would be something alone the lines of "it is part of the human condition to be capable of killing people simply because one wants to eliminate their 'race,' religion, or ethnicity."

How many people participating in a mass killing that was orchestrated to eliminate a "'race,' religion, or ethnicity" have to not want that goal but a different one (for now let's leave out those who are killing but don't want to) in order to make it not a genocide?
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

fhdz

#124
Quote from: grumbler on February 20, 2012, 08:15:30 AM
Quote from: fahdiz on February 19, 2012, 02:00:27 PM
That is an interesting assumption.
That's an interesting misuse of the word "assumption." 

Motive is the distinction between genocide and murder that is not genocide.  That's not an "assumption," that's a definition.  An assumption would be something alone the lines of "it is part of the human condition to be capable of killing people simply because one wants to eliminate their 'race,' religion, or ethnicity."

Humans are capable of murdering. Humans are capable of participating in a genocide. Not all humans involve themselves in either thing. That does not make them incapable of doing so. Is this really a series of statements you have difficulty grasping, or are you just offended that you're being lumped in with the rest of us mortals?

Your style of argument is tiresome, quibbling, and focuses on a few branches on a few trees instead of the forest in order to score your Languish version of debate club points. No thank you. Not interested in continuing.
and the horse you rode in on

Razgovory

I guess it isn't genocide if you don't mean it.  The government requisitioned all your food and caused a famine.  Sorry about that, clerical error.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Darth Wagtaros

Another otherwise interesting argument destroyed by a Semantics Death Storm. 
PDH!

Razgovory

We are going to have to write posts with a footnote behind every word linking to a dictionary entry.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

grumbler

Quote from: fahdiz on February 20, 2012, 01:36:07 PM
Humans are capable of murdering. Humans are capable of participating in a genocide. Not all humans involve themselves in either thing. That does not make them incapable of doing so. Is this really a series of statements you have difficulty grasping, or are you just offended that you're being lumped in with the rest of us mortals?
What I don't understand is why you persist in misconstruing my argument.  Your argument is that being capable of genocide is a part of "the human condition."  Not that there is a small number of humans capable of doing so, but that the capacity to murder innocent people to wipe out their group is inherent in our nature as humans (which is the definition of "the human condition").

I disagree.  What about that cannot you understand?

What makes you think you speak for all mortals but me?  Why even bring some bogus argument about what I am "just offended" by into this?  We are talking about a general rule; the "human condition."

QuoteYour style of argument is tiresome, quibbling, and focuses on a few branches on a few trees instead of the forest in order to score your Languish version of debate club points. No thank you. Not interested in continuing.

When you are down to complaining about the way I argue rather than what I argue, you are intellectually bankrupt in the argument, so withdrawal from the debate is wise and logical.  That your assertion is untrue is of no consequence, given its complete irrelevance.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

fhdz

and the horse you rode in on

CountDeMoney

Quote from: fahdiz on February 23, 2012, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 23, 2012, 11:34:22 AM
I disagree.

And you are welcome to your disagreement. I don't give a shit.

That's rather un-fahdiz of you, man.  'Sup widdat?

Eddie Teach

Quote from: fahdiz on February 23, 2012, 12:09:11 PM
I don't give a shit.

Thus your argument is intellectually bankrupt and grumbler wins. Sorry.  :(
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

11B4V

Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on February 20, 2012, 06:36:49 PM
Another otherwise interesting argument destroyed by a Semantics Death Storm.

But always entertaining.
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

CountDeMoney

Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on February 20, 2012, 06:36:49 PM
a Semantics Death Storm.

It's more like a Semantics EMP Pulse.  Immediately burns out every communications transistor and circuit board in the area.

grumbler

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 23, 2012, 12:25:45 PM
Quote from: fahdiz on February 23, 2012, 12:09:11 PM
I don't give a shit.

Thus your argument is intellectually bankrupt and grumbler wins. Sorry.  :(
:huh:  He's not making an argument.

"Intellectually bankrupt" means that one has run out of intellectual arguments and is making arguments that are non-intellectual.  Fahdiz started with some intellectual arguments, but continued without them when all of his intellectual arguments were refuted (switching, instead, to the argument that the way I expressed myself was faulty, or something like that). That's intellectual bankruptcy.

Ideas can start out intellectually bankrupt, of course, but that's not what happened here.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!