Elie Wiesel calls out Mitt Romney on dead Jew baptisms.

[Sheilbh]

If I was going to pick a religious to convert to, I think I would give Mormonism pretty serious consideration. It has the advantage of being a very "constructed" religion, and hence not nearly as vindictive in many ways as some.

Of course, that has it's own set of problems as well...

Yeah I like Mormons and Mormonism.  I think on a personal level they're always very nice and as I say I think their idea of salvation is really admirable.  They generally always seem a good bunch to me.

All of which would put me off them enormously if I was looking for a religion.  There's only so much clean-shaven virtue in a short-sleeved shirt I can take.  If I was wanting God I'd want mystery and shades of light and dark.

[CountDeMoney]

If I was going to pick a religious to convert to, I think I would give Mormonism pretty serious consideration. It has the advantage of being a very "constructed" religion, and hence not nearly as vindictive in many ways as some.

Not as "vindictive"?  They're not as bad as the Scientologists, but ex-Mormons have had their issues with Der Church after they've walked away.

And no, I don't think Mormonism would be for you.  Those "Defending Your Life" white robes and slippers they wear would so not flatter your figure.

[Admiral Yi]

Mormonism strikes me as one of the more productive religions, in that its brand of a useful lie is more useful than other brands of useful lies.  It seems like Mormonism does an above average job of fostering net positive contributions to society from its members.

They also breed up some nice lookin ladies.

[CountDeMoney]

Yeah I like Mormons and Mormonism.  I think on a personal level they're always very nice and as I say I think their idea of salvation is really admirable.  They generally always seem a good bunch to me.

So are head trauma victims  Doesn't mean they're cool to hang with on the Sabbath.

All of which would put me off them enormously if I was looking for a religion.  There's only so much clean-shaven virtue in a short-sleeved shirt I can take.  If I was wanting God I'd want mystery and shades of light and dark.

Most cults operate that way;  that's their attraction to the weak-willed.

[CountDeMoney]

Mormonism strikes me as one of the more productive religions, in that its brand of a useful lie is more useful than other brands of useful lies.  It seems like Mormonism does an above average job of fostering net positive contributions to society from its members.

They also breed up some nice lookin ladies.

That's because they recruit from the wealthy, who come from good stock.  And they avoid the toads and tacos.

[Sheilbh]

If you want to know why I think the outrage is reasonable, just look at the reaction the Mormon Church has had to this issue.  I dont see anything in the article that suggests the Church thinks the criticism is unreasonable.

What Throbby said.

There was a story a while back about a British bank that caved in to Muslim pressure and stopped handing out free piggy banks to little kids.  If we follow your logic then we know now that the Muslim outrage was justified because the bank caved in.

It was nonsense:

"Hogwash: Now the PC brigade bans piggy banks in case they offend Muslims" – Daily Express, 24 October 2005. The story claimed that NatWest and Halifax had removed images of piggy banks from their promotional material in an effort to avoid offending Muslim customers, since pork is forbidden in Islam. The paper quoted observers calling such action "barmy" and "bonkers", thereby stirring up a huge response from the public.

After the story's publication, the Halifax drily noted that it "has not withdrawn any piggy banks from branches" and noted that in fact it had not used piggy banks in its branches for a number of years. The NatWest press statement noted that: "There is absolutely no fact in the story."

90% of those stories come from the tabloid press who have their own agenda and sense of 'fun'.  One of the titbits from Leveson was the Daily Star reporter who testified that they used to make the Muslim woman who'd just joined work on the 'Islamophobia desk' (they looked out for, or invented stories about Muslims and political correctness gone mad) every other week.  She didn't last long.

[Admiral Yi]

That's because they recruit from the wealthy, who come from good stock.  And they avoid the toads and tacos.

So that's what those kids are doing in Pango Pango and Mali, recruiting the wealthy and avoiding toads and tacos. 

[CountDeMoney]

That's because they recruit from the wealthy, who come from good stock.  And they avoid the toads and tacos.

So that's what those kids are doing in Pango Pango and Mali, recruiting the wealthy and avoiding toads and tacos. 

lol, you're right;  because so many Pango Pangos are relocating to Provo.

[grumbler]

No, silly rabbit.  You ignore that being raised in religion and being born into a religion are the same thing.  Of course if one is born in a family that has no particular religious beliefs the child will probably follow suit.  Also you ignore the simple truth that some people are in fact born into a religion - literally.  But you cant see that because of the particular ethnocentrism you were born into....

More bullshit semantic pinhead-dancing.

[crazy canuck]

If you want to know why I think the outrage is reasonable, just look at the reaction the Mormon Church has had to this issue.  I dont see anything in the article that suggests the Church thinks the criticism is unreasonable.

What Throbby said.

There was a story a while back about a British bank that caved in to Muslim pressure and stopped handing out free piggy banks to little kids.  If we follow your logic then we know now that the Muslim outrage was justified because the bank caved in.

I dont know how your statement flows from what I said, please explain.

[grumbler]

And no, I don't think Mormonism would be for you.  Those "Defending Your Life" white robes and slippers they wear would so not flatter your figure.

[crazy canuck]

More bullshit semantic pinhead-dancing.

Silly Rabbit, Tricks are for kids.

[Neil]

The Mormons don't believe in Hell, so for them there is no dilemma .  They've got Perdition but you've got to be evil on a Biblical scale to get in there.  You can count the number of people in Perdition on your fingers - as far as I can tell it's basically Judas.

See, and this is why I hate Mormons.  The persecution of Judas Iscariot is ridiculous.

[Ideologue]

Heck, I actually have to give the Mormons some props - I think they are the only ones to at least try to answer the logical dilemma of salvation for the innocent but ignorant.

The Mormons don't believe in Hell, so for them there is no dilemma .  They've got Perdition but you've got to be evil on a Biblical scale to get in there.  You can count the number of people in Perdition on your fingers - as far as I can tell it's basically Judas.

The Mormons believe in a tiered system of heaven, but basically everyone is saved.  You are and I am even if we're never Mormon, we drink coffee every day and all the rest.  The lowest level of heaven is, according to Joseph Smith, so gloriously we'd all kill ourselves to get there if we saw it.

I think it's a really attractive vision of salvation (though I prefer the Muslim one, they've got Hell but it's not eternal, everyone, I think even Satan is ultimately redeemed).

That's just basically adept theodicy.  Anyone who believes in any sort of serious Hell and an omnibenevolent God is holding onto an unsustainably incoherent belief system.

(And when you throw predestination into it, it becomes awful and vicious.)

[crazy canuck]

So if everyone gets in, why all the fake baptism bs?