Elie Wiesel calls out Mitt Romney on dead Jew baptisms.

[Sheilbh]

Then they are grabbing everyone up to heaven anyway.  Not something to actively care about let alone get vocally offended unless one wants to score political points.

I don't think that's Elie Wiesel's point, or the Rabbi quoted in the article, or the Jewish groups who have previously asked the Mormons to stop doing this.

My Mormon relatives have probably done this to most of my family, which doesn't bother me - in part because I don't really care about many of my ancestors.  On the other hand if they were to do it to someone who I knew was deeply religious, or who had been attacked for their faith, or, for example, my gay uncle I think I'd feel differently.

Perhaps in an emotional way but certainly not from a rational point of view.

Religion's about faith and identity.  It's emotional to the core.  And I can very easily see how this could cause offence to religious people.  Especially Jewish leaders and especially those, like Wiesel, who survived the Holocaust. 

Sure you might not like a group of people telling you that you had it wrong all along - but to equate people who are still taking steps to secure your "eternal salvation" as equivalent to Nazis who wanted to wipe out your existence?

Well the Mormons don't need to do it for eternal salvation.  But I can see where DWM's coming from.  This is posthumous forced conversion.

[garbon]

Elie Wiesel not political?

[garbon]

Then they are grabbing everyone up to heaven anyway.  Not something to actively care about let alone get vocally offended unless one wants to score political points.

I don't think that's Elie Wiesel's point, or the Rabbi quoted in the article, or the Jewish groups who have previously asked the Mormons to stop doing this.

My Mormon relatives have probably done this to most of my family, which doesn't bother me - in part because I don't really care about many of my ancestors.  On the other hand if they were to do it to someone who I knew was deeply religious, or who had been attacked for their faith, or, for example, my gay uncle I think I'd feel differently.

Perhaps in an emotional way but certainly not from a rational point of view.

Religion's about faith and identity.  It's emotional to the core.  And I can very easily see how this could cause offence to religious people.  Especially Jewish leaders and especially those, like Wiesel, who survived the Holocaust. 

Sure you might not like a group of people telling you that you had it wrong all along - but to equate people who are still taking steps to secure your "eternal salvation" as equivalent to Nazis who wanted to wipe out your existence?

Well the Mormons don't need to do it for eternal salvation.  But I can see where DWM's coming from.  This is posthumous forced conversion.

I don't really see how the Holocaust is applicable here. I completely understand the vigilance and never forget attitude as essential to preventing another such tragedy on such a scale...but the actions of Mormons hardly seem to rise to the same level. Hell for most people they are a wacky religion no one pays much attention to unless they start trying to have multiple wives and forcing children to have babies.

[Sheilbh]

Elie Wiesel not political?

You can be political and not about scoring political points.

Anyway this came up because it turned out that someone in the Mormon church had done a proxy baptism on Simon Wiesenthal's parents and on Elie Wiesel's.

[garbon]

Elie Wiesel not political?

To add to this. How is it not political to make such a statement and bring in the name of a current Republican hopeful?

How is that anything but an attempt to sway hearts and minds on the election?

[Josquius]

I don't get the offense.
You think Mormonism is a BS religion hence a Mormon baptism does nothing. Especially when it doesn't even involve the person in question.

[Syt]

Let's say an atheist/jew/spaghettimonsterist gets posthumously baptized . . . if in a hundred or two hundred years people look up said person for genealogy reasons, what's the chance of them being (wrongly) identified as Mormons?

Actually, don't many genealogists refer to Mormon records, because they have rather thorough scorekeeping for their mumbo-jumbo?

When my oldest sister was in her Mormon phase over in the States, she wanted to let our dad father be poshumously baptized, but my mom was absolutely against it, because she wanted no association with "those nutters".

[Sheilbh]

I don't really see how the Holocaust is applicable here. I completely understand the vigilance and never forget attitude as essential to preventing another such tragedy on such a scale...but the actions of Mormons hardly seem to rise to the same level. Hell for most people they are a wacky religion no one pays much attention to unless they start trying to have multiple wives and forcing children to have babies.

Well that's why I'd link it more to forced conversion of the Jews. 

The way I see it is that if you're a believer you're ending someone's Jewishness and converting them to the faith after they've died - so what the Mormons are doing, on their terms, is I think objectionable.  From a Jewish perspective of non-believers I think it's more that these were people who were attacked and killed for their religious identity, for someone to then be saying they're changing that after they've died is just very offensive.  As I say it's like exhuming a body from the Jewish cemetery and giving it a Christian burial.

[Sheilbh]

To add to this. How is it not political to make such a statement and bring in the name of a current Republican hopeful?

How is that anything but an attempt to sway hearts and minds on the election?

Romney "is now the most famous and important Mormon in the country," Wiesel said. "I'm not saying it's his fault, but once he knows, morally he must respond. . . . He should come out and say, 'Stop it.' "

I think that's a fair point.

[garbon]

To add to this. How is it not political to make such a statement and bring in the name of a current Republican hopeful?

How is that anything but an attempt to sway hearts and minds on the election?

Romney "is now the most famous and important Mormon in the country," Wiesel said. "I'm not saying it's his fault, but once he knows, morally he must respond. . . . He should come out and say, 'Stop it.' "

I think that's a fair point.

In general? Maybe. In an election cycle? Shady at best.

[Valmy]

But the Jews believe that the Mormon religion is bullshit, so why do they care when someone performs a ritual they see as meaningless?

It is idolatry which they take really freaking seriously.  They do not view it as meaningless if you read your OT

[Sheilbh]

In general? Maybe. In an election cycle? Shady at best.

Okay.  But in that case I'd ask more about the person checking the database than Wiesel for his response after finding out that his and Wiesenthal's parents have been baptised.

[garbon]

Well that's why I'd link it more to forced conversion of the Jews. 

The way I see it is that if you're a believer you're ending someone's Jewishness and converting them to the faith after they've died - so what the Mormons are doing, on their terms, is I think objectionable.  From a Jewish perspective of non-believers I think it's more that these were people who were attacked and killed for their religious identity, for someone to then be saying they're changing that after they've died is just very offensive.

Except that the Jews and pretty much everyone else in the world but Mormons don't buy into that - so why raise the fuss?  Besides most religions are offensive to other religions as at their core they deny the truth of other faiths.  That's Religion 101.

As I say it's like exhuming a body from the Jewish cemetery and giving it a Christian burial.

It isn't all like that. There's no desecration occurring here.  The Mormons are just including in their ranks people who would reject that label.

[jimmy olsen]

But the Jews believe that the Mormon religion is bullshit, so why do they care when someone performs a ritual they see as meaningless?

It is idolatry which they take really freaking seriously.  They do not view it as meaningless if you read your OT

Don't they only care if Jews do it?

[garbon]

In general? Maybe. In an election cycle? Shady at best.

Okay.  But in that case I'd ask more about the person checking the database than Wiesel for his response after finding out that his and Wiesenthal's parents have been baptised.

Same story for both, no?  After all, this is the sort of stuff that people research during campaigns. No need to give such political minded efforts legitimacy by espousing their cause.