In God We Must

[Razgovory]

Anyway, this is a classic case of double standards, something also I am familiar with as a gay person.

Straight people can tell everyone about their spouses, their kids, have their pictures all over the desk, can wear a wedding ring, can embrace in public and have other PDAs. But when gay people do anything other than being apologetic "sorry that I live", e.g. hold hands in public, they are "flaunting their sexuality."

Religious people can pray in public, can dress in a funny way, can kill animals in a special way, can hold street gatherings, can bother total strangers in the street or by going door to door and preach their hodge podge, can tell everyone who is willing to listen what god means to them and why Jesus is the best thing that can happen not just to them but to you. But when atheist people are not "keeping it to themselves" but are "vocal", they are obnoxious annoying assholes.

Seriously, go fuck yourself.

Edit: and if you think that these are not comparable, it just goes to show that atheists are currently more discriminated against than gays.

You are so goddamn stupid.  Nobody said atheists can't do these things.  On the other hand, atheists like you have problem telling people who are religious that they should only do in their homes and keep it out of the public sphere.  Of course you are an Eastern European, so persecuting people who do things like that is probably a natural reaction.  It is troubling seeing that sort of behavior occurring in Western Europe as well.

I'm curious, are there a lot of "Straight" parade?  Have you ever seen "Straight" pride day or something similar?

[Razgovory]

At least we know what Marty's Atheism stems from.  The same place as his homosexuality.  His attention whoring desire to be a "Victim" of a cruel society that doesn't appreciate him.

[Ed Anger]

[Camerus]

At the risk of generalizations (and that is what this whole discussion is about, isn't it?  "The religious" vs. "atheists"), my sense is that most prominent atheists (e.g. Hitchens, Dawkins) approach the other side from the perspective of 'you are wrong, and you are a moron for your belief system'.  Conversely, leading respectable Christian figures (e.g. the Pope) approach the other side from the perspective of 'you are wrong, and I hope for the sake of your soul and peace of mind, you change your mind.'

[The Brain]

Fact: the Pope is almost as Nazi as Günter GraSS.

[OttoVonBismarck]

That may be optimal(depending on the people involved of course), but surely being raised by a gay couple is better than growing up in an orphanage or with foster parents who see you as nothing but a meal ticket.

I don't know. Orphanages have a horrible history but I don't know why, given proper administration you couldn't have a good state run orphanage that would be superior to some parents.

[The Brain]

Tampax's beets are superior to some parents.

[Martinus]

Religious people can pray in public, can dress in a funny way, can kill animals in a special way, can hold street gatherings, can bother total strangers in the street or by going door to door and preach their hodge podge, can tell everyone who is willing to listen what god means to them and why Jesus is the best thing that can happen not just to them but to you. But when atheist people are not "keeping it to themselves" but are "vocal", they are obnoxious annoying assholes.

1:  Overly preachy and annoying  religious folk are regarded as pricks too.
2: Religious people believe something, people do tend to go on about what they believe. Athiesm however is the lack of belief.
I mean, I like football, I talk about football a lot and this is fine. I don't however like cricket- it makes absolutely no sense for me to go on and on about cricket.
I hate athiests because they make such a big song and dance about not being religious...if you're not religious then religion should be a non-issue for you as it for the vast majority of irreligious people. I hate the way some make a religion out of non-religion.

I wonder where people like you or garbon, who say that for an atheist religion is a non-issue come from - because that certainly is no country or place on earth where people argue that we should respect "Christian values" or bullshit like that. 

[Martinus]

Religious people can pray in public, can dress in a funny way, can kill animals in a special way, can hold street gatherings, can bother total strangers in the street or by going door to door and preach their hodge podge, can tell everyone who is willing to listen what god means to them and why Jesus is the best thing that can happen not just to them but to you. But when atheist people are not "keeping it to themselves" but are "vocal", they are obnoxious annoying assholes.

Seriously, go fuck yourself.

I dunno Marty.  When religious types go door to door proseltyzing they are also being annoying assholes.  I don't know of anyone who enjoys having Witnesses coming by dropping off copies of the Watchtower.  Dressing in a funny way and attracts odd looks no matter whether it is burkha or a mesh top.  Anyone can hold a street gathering - whether it be for Easter or for Gay Pride.

Fair point about the gay double standard, but I don't see a double standard for atheists.  Annoying is annoying, regardless of beliefs or lack thereof.

With the door to door etc. stuff I was responding to HVC's claim that "if religious people do it, that's admirable" but when atheists do it it's annoying.

[Martinus]

I'm curious, are there a lot of "Straight" parade?  Have you ever seen "Straight" pride day or something similar?

Actually I did. Next question.

[garbon]

I wonder where people like you or garbon, who say that for an atheist religion is a non-issue come from - because that certainly is no country or place on earth where people argue that we should respect "Christian values" or bullshit like that. 

I'm not sure what that has to do with my post. Can you answer my question about what you'd like to be able to do as an Atheist that you can't do?

Actually, I'm not even sure what the post I quoted is supposed to mean.

[Martinus]

At the risk of generalizations (and that is what this whole discussion is about, isn't it?  "The religious" vs. "atheists"), my sense is that most prominent atheists (e.g. Hitchens, Dawkins) approach the other side from the perspective of 'you are wrong, and you are a moron for your belief system'.  Conversely, leading respectable Christian figures (e.g. the Pope) approach the other side from the perspective of 'you are wrong, and I hope for the sake of your soul and peace of mind, you change your mind.'

Not really but nice strawman.

Atheists that you mention approach the other side from the perspective of "you are wrong and I hope for the sake of the psychological and physical wellbeing of you and those around you, you change your mind."

An irrational religion mindset can lead to innumerable damage to people - from suicide attempts by gay kids raised as Baptists to inter-religion conflicts to Jehovah witnesses refusing to have blood transfussion.

[Jacob]

Well, you just said (or at least implied that it can legitimately be said) that a category of people to which I belong is unfit to raise children by the very quality of our birth, which if you think about it, is kinda offensive.

No, I implied that it can legitimately be said that children should be raised by a man and a woman.

I guess those people who legitimately argue that have some plan to enact that then? I mean, beyond discriminating against homosexuals when it comes to adoption. Maybe we're looking at outlawing divorce? Or maybe taking kids away from single parents and assigning them to married couples?

[Jacob]

Raz, I'm still waiting for you to explain what "atheists have done" that Gups is apparently being naive about.

[Martinus]

I wonder where people like you or garbon, who say that for an atheist religion is a non-issue come from - because that certainly is no country or place on earth where people argue that we should respect "Christian values" or bullshit like that. 

I'm not sure what that has to do with my post. Can you answer my question about what you'd like to be able to do as an Atheist that you can't do?

Actually, I'm not even sure what the post I quoted is supposed to mean.

A pop startlet here said recently that Bible was written by a bunch of crazy old dudes who were high on weed. She was prosecuted and fined for this and technically has a criminal conviction.

A prominent Catholic journalist here said recently that technically there is no difference between gay marriage and a marriage of a man to a goat - since both are unnatural perversions. He was sued by a gay rights organisation for defamation and won.