UK pretends it still has a navy; "Right wot's all this then", says Admiralty

[CountDeMoney]

Florida is to blame for the Cuba embargo, isn't it?

*edit* or to be more accurate, cubans living in florida.

New Jersey, too.  And their Republican stooges.

There are cubans in Joisey? their boats get lost or something?

Robert Torricelli was one of the biggest anti-Castro assholes on the hill.

[Jacob]

Plus the fact that Cuba can't afford to buy anything we make.

Pish posh. I'm sure they can afford subsidized corn and cable TV.

[Valmy]

I think it has more to do with absence of any moves in the direction of political freedom that the US can respond to.

Plus the fact that Cuba can't afford to buy anything we make.

Yeah but we put them on the list for being a Soviet ally and sponsoring rebels during the Cold War not because of their crap freedom record.  If we embargoed everybody who had a crap political freedom record we would not be shipping our manufacturing to China now would we?

[Admiral Yi]

Yeah but we put them on the list for being a Soviet ally and sponsoring rebels during the Cold War not because of their crap freedom record.  If we embargoed everybody who had a crap political freedom record we would not be shipping our manufacturing to China now would we?

And if the question were should we slap an embargo on them starting now your argument would be valid and we would not.  But to change an existing policy you need some gestures from the other guys.

[Valmy]

And if the question were should we slap an embargo on them starting now your argument would be valid and we would not.  But to change an existing policy you need some gestures from the other guys.

What was Vietnam's big gesture?  Freedom Fries for all?

[CountDeMoney]

And if the question were should we slap an embargo on them starting now your argument would be valid and we would not.  But to change an existing policy you need some gestures from the other guys.

What was Vietnam's big gesture?  Freedom Fries for all?

Cheap labor, and a willingness to let us listen in on China, all covert-like and whatnot.

[Admiral Yi]

What was Vietnam's big gesture?  Freedom Fries for all?

Helping document MIAs.

[derspiess]

Plus the fact that Cuba can't afford to buy anything we make.

You're getting it all wrong.  Opening trade with Cuba will solve <insert current top U.S. economic problem here> overnight!

[The Minsky Moment]

And if the question were should we slap an embargo on them starting now your argument would be valid and we would not.  But to change an existing policy you need some gestures from the other guys.

Why?  If the raison d'etre of the policy is gone, why on earth keep it on just for lack of some empty gesture from the other side?

[derspiess]

Yeah but we put them on the list for being a Soviet ally and sponsoring rebels during the Cold War not because of their crap freedom record.  If we embargoed everybody who had a crap political freedom record we would not be shipping our manufacturing to China now would we?

What Yi said.  At this point it's as much of a face-saving thing as anything else (and I'm not discounting the value of saving face).  If the Cuban leadership gives us something to hang our hat on, in the form of meaningful political/economic reforms, it would be a lot easier to end the embargo. 

[Admiral Yi]

Why?  If the raison d'etre of the policy is gone, why on earth keep it on just for lack of some empty gesture from the other side?

Because policies need to be sold to the public and because we ostensibly value political freedom and democracy.

[The Minsky Moment]

Because policies need to be sold to the public and because we ostensibly value political freedom and democracy.

Does the whole US public actually strongly support the present policy?

I would think the valuing freedom would include ideals like freedom to travel and freedom to trade, invest, etc.

[Admiral Yi]

Does the whole US public actually strongly support the present policy?

Does a majority of the US public strongly support changing the policy?

I would think the valuing freedom would include ideals like freedom to travel and freedom to trade, invest, etc.

Cuba can grant those rights too while they're at it.

[Ideologue]

They need to get a majority of the Falkland Islanders to want to be a part of Argentina, then they will get the islands.

Wrong.  As long as one person on the Falklands wants to remain British, it is Britain's duty to defend him or her with the utmost necessary force, as it is America's duty to support, and fight alongside them if need be.

[The Minsky Moment]

Does a majority of the US public strongly support changing the policy?

I dont think that is a requirement before policy is changed.  Policies get changed all the time even in the absence of strong support.  In fact typically policies get changed in an atmosphere of general apathy.

The problem here is not "the public" - it is a narrow and vocal interest group that has held the policy hostage.

Cuba can grant those rights too while they're at it.

Yes that would be nice, but regardless we probably shouldn't be using their conduct as a model.