What is the West? Is Greece part of the West?

Started by Razgovory, January 17, 2012, 08:36:22 PM

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Razgovory

It's really remarkable how little of the classical world survives.  People considered luminaries in their time have their entire work lost to us.  Even famous thinkers like Aristotle have lost works.  Hell, whole fields of endeavor are lost.  The Greeks had great painters you know.  Not just on pottery and mosaics. They painted on wood rather then canvas.  They had their great masters and artists in the field.  How much of that survives?  Almost none.  A half dozen commercial portraits have been found in Egypt, where the tombs and dry air preserved them.  We know they had some painters of great renown, and we even know a few names.  But of their work nothing is known.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Siege

Quote from: Razgovory on January 26, 2012, 11:05:03 PM
It's really remarkable how little of the classical world survives.  People considered luminaries in their time have their entire work lost to us.  Even famous thinkers like Aristotle have lost works.  Hell, whole fields of endeavor are lost.  The Greeks had great painters you know.  Not just on pottery and mosaics. They painted on wood rather then canvas.  They had their great masters and artists in the field.  How much of that survives?  Almost none.  A half dozen commercial portraits have been found in Egypt, where the tombs and dry air preserved them.  We know they had some painters of great renown, and we even know a few names.  But of their work nothing is known.

Not even the dust of our bones will remains.
I wonder how much of our glorious technological civilization would survive if humans were to disappear, or civilization to collapse, or what-have-you.


"All men are created equal, then some become infantry."

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't."

"Laissez faire et laissez passer, le monde va de lui même!"


Tonitrus

You can see how much is left of the dinosaur civilization.

HVC

If there's ever another dark age all our information will be lost. Try to get information off a cd or thumb drive without know how a computer works.
Being lazy is bad; unless you still get what you want, then it's called "patience".
Hubris must be punished. Severely.

crazy canuck

Quote from: Razgovory on January 26, 2012, 11:05:03 PM
It's really remarkable how little of the classical world survives.  People considered luminaries in their time have their entire work lost to us.  Even famous thinkers like Aristotle have lost works.  Hell, whole fields of endeavor are lost.  The Greeks had great painters you know.  Not just on pottery and mosaics. They painted on wood rather then canvas.  They had their great masters and artists in the field.  How much of that survives?  Almost none.  A half dozen commercial portraits have been found in Egypt, where the tombs and dry air preserved them.  We know they had some painters of great renown, and we even know a few names.  But of their work nothing is known.

Yes, the Christian mob has much to answer for.

Crazy_Ivan80

Quote from: Razgovory on January 26, 2012, 11:05:03 PM
It's really remarkable how little of the classical world survives.  People considered luminaries in their time have their entire work lost to us.  Even famous thinkers like Aristotle have lost works.  Hell, whole fields of endeavor are lost.  The Greeks had great painters you know.  Not just on pottery and mosaics. They painted on wood rather then canvas.  They had their great masters and artists in the field.  How much of that survives?  Almost none.  A half dozen commercial portraits have been found in Egypt, where the tombs and dry air preserved them.  We know they had some painters of great renown, and we even know a few names.  But of their work nothing is known.

it's the "law" of archaeology: about 10% survives, the rest is lost. Mobs, disasters, decay, etc... It takes a massive bite out of what once was. And it seems to be more or les consistent through the ages if you exclude methods of data-storage. Once there's a decent ay of massproducing printed works at least that segment sees a better survival rate. But much is still lost.

Razgovory

I imagine it's related to how far back you go.  I suspect we know much more about England in the high middle Ages then we do about Classical Rome.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Tamas

Quote from: crazy canuck on January 29, 2012, 11:26:02 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 26, 2012, 11:05:03 PM
It's really remarkable how little of the classical world survives.  People considered luminaries in their time have their entire work lost to us.  Even famous thinkers like Aristotle have lost works.  Hell, whole fields of endeavor are lost.  The Greeks had great painters you know.  Not just on pottery and mosaics. They painted on wood rather then canvas.  They had their great masters and artists in the field.  How much of that survives?  Almost none.  A half dozen commercial portraits have been found in Egypt, where the tombs and dry air preserved them.  We know they had some painters of great renown, and we even know a few names.  But of their work nothing is known.

Yes, the Christian mob has much to answer for.

:yes:

Sheilbh

There's still the unopened library in Pompeii which could contain a lot more.
Let's bomb Russia!

The Brain

Quote from: Sheilbh on January 30, 2012, 06:10:54 AM
There's still the unopened library in Pompeii which could contain a lot more.

Maybe. Has any library card been found?
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Razgovory

Quote from: Tamas on January 30, 2012, 04:07:35 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 29, 2012, 11:26:02 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 26, 2012, 11:05:03 PM
It's really remarkable how little of the classical world survives.  People considered luminaries in their time have their entire work lost to us.  Even famous thinkers like Aristotle have lost works.  Hell, whole fields of endeavor are lost.  The Greeks had great painters you know.  Not just on pottery and mosaics. They painted on wood rather then canvas.  They had their great masters and artists in the field.  How much of that survives?  Almost none.  A half dozen commercial portraits have been found in Egypt, where the tombs and dry air preserved them.  We know they had some painters of great renown, and we even know a few names.  But of their work nothing is known.

Yes, the Christian mob has much to answer for.

:yes:

Julius Caesar: Crypto Christian time traveler.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

garbon

Quote from: Razgovory on January 26, 2012, 11:05:03 PM
It's really remarkable how little of the classical world survives.  People considered luminaries in their time have their entire work lost to us.  Even famous thinkers like Aristotle have lost works.  Hell, whole fields of endeavor are lost.  The Greeks had great painters you know.  Not just on pottery and mosaics. They painted on wood rather then canvas.  They had their great masters and artists in the field.  How much of that survives?  Almost none.  A half dozen commercial portraits have been found in Egypt, where the tombs and dry air preserved them.  We know they had some painters of great renown, and we even know a few names.  But of their work nothing is known.

Actually I find it amazing that so much has survived given the turmoil and strife of the past millenia. We're looking at times when we didn't have as many preservation efforts as we have today.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.