Persian Conquest of Greece. What would have been the real impact on Western Civ?

[Eddie Teach]

Western civilization would not exist, the Persified Greeks would have discovered the steam engine and their masters conquered the world.

Or maybe something completely different.

[Admiral Yi]

This entire thread is anti-Iranian propaganda.

[Eddie Teach]

Parthia delenda est.

[PDH]

I dunno.  Possibly the same result.  I mean, iirc, it's not like Alexander relied very heavily on actual Greeks.  He could even still frame it as a crusade, on behalf of the Ionians.

Crusade against what?

I doubt there is even the situation to have a rise of Macedon or even a Peloponnesian War, given that the factors for an Athenian economic empire post Persian Wars is not there.

[The Brain]

Not a huge impact on Western civilization. Rome had a much bigger impact than Greece on Western civilization and Greek culture would still influence Rome pretty much as it did historically. So what if there's a satrap in Greece.

[MadImmortalMan]

I'd guess serfdom and slavery would probably have gone on far longer. Those Persians were pretty top-down authoritarian. Probably Islam would have been highly persecuted and maybe never emerged as a serious thing.

[Barrister]

I'd guess serfdom and slavery would probably have gone on far longer. Those Persians were pretty top-down authoritarian. Probably Islam would have been highly persecuted and maybe never emerged as a serious thing.

The rise of Islam was 1000 years later - hard to see any connection between the two.  The persian empires had risen and fallen repeatedly during that time.

[crazy canuck]

Not a huge impact on Western civilization. Rome had a much bigger impact than Greece on Western civilization and Greek culture would still influence Rome pretty much as it did historically. So what if there's a satrap in Greece.

Rome took over what had become a Hellenized east.  Others have already touched on it but it bears repeating that the main issue would be whether you would still have an Alexander and a Hellenization of the East if the Persians won or indeed if they never invaded.

[Razgovory]

I don't really consider the Greeks part of Western Civilization.

[Valmy]

It would be a dramatic difference.  So much of the foundation of Western Civilization started with the Greek Golden Age that started with the Persian Wars.  But would it be better or worse?  No idea such a dramatic departure from reality such a long time in the past is difficult to speculate on.

I mean how different would the world be if the Samnites had run over the Romans?  It would be dramatically different.  But it is almost impossible to imagine how.

[crazy canuck]

I dunno.  Possibly the same result.  I mean, iirc, it's not like Alexander relied very heavily on actual Greeks.  He could even still frame it as a crusade, on behalf of the Ionians.

Crusade against what?

I doubt there is even the situation to have a rise of Macedon or even a Peloponnesian War, given that the factors for an Athenian economic empire post Persian Wars is not there.

Yeah, the whole reason for the Athenian league disappears - without the concentration of all that wealth and power in Athens what then becomes of Greek culture within even the limited regions Athens controls.  And what happens with the Spartans without a strong Athens.

[mongers]

Iran would now be part of the Euro and facing a debt default.

Meanwhile America and the Lebanon would be planning to bomb Saudi Arabia. 

[crazy canuck]

I don't really consider the Greeks part of Western Civilization.

Given that all the gospels were first written in Greek, there would be less books by Dawkins at the very least.

[Ideologue]

I dunno.  Possibly the same result.  I mean, iirc, it's not like Alexander relied very heavily on actual Greeks.  He could even still frame it as a crusade, on behalf of the Ionians.

Crusade against what?

I doubt there is even the situation to have a rise of Macedon or even a Peloponnesian War, given that the factors for an Athenian economic empire post Persian Wars is not there.

Yeah, the whole reason for the Athenian league disappears - without the concentration of all that wealth and power in Athens what then becomes of Greek culture within even the limited regions Athens controls.  And what happens with the Spartans without a strong Athens.

OK, fair enough, but does Macedon rely on those events to become a powerful kingdom and begin to interfere in Greek affairs?

(Not a rhetorical question.  I may be wrong.)

[Valmy]

OK, fair enough, but does Macedon rely on those events to become a powerful kingdom and begin to interfere in Greek affairs?

(Not a rhetorical question.  I may be wrong.)

Yes.  Macedon had been defeated by the Persians during the initial phases of Xerxes' invasion.  They would be a satrapy or a client state of some sort if the Greeks had not defeated the Persians.