Another Raz history question: medieval armor

[Barrister]

I'm really bad with weights and have no clue how much 30 pounds is but...surely modern soldiers carry around so much on their back when they're out marching?
And that's not very evenly distributed.

WWI infantrymen carried something like 250 lbs in their pack IIRC (I've got the actual numbers somewhere, but I'm not going to look it up--and of course if varied a bit from one country to another).  WWII soldiers didn't have that much of a load, and most modern infanty has a bit less than the WWII era I think, but it's still way more than 30 lbs, and as stated, it's not evenly distributed.

Not unless they were ants and could carry 2x their body weight.

I've read lots of reports from the Klondike gold rush about how the Chilkat indians made a fortune because they could carry~200lb on their back over the pass (most a white man could carry was about 100lb).

[Iormlund]

A mail shirt isn't that heavy for a man in good shape, 20-30 pounds depending on how long (to hips or knees). Plus it's equally distributed across your body.

It's not distributed equally across your body.  Most of the weight is on your shoulders.

But that's exacty where you want to carry weight from.  Why do you think they make backpacks?

Not quite. Ideally you want it distributed as widely as possible. Especially when you are going to fight in it. What do you think is easier, using shield and sword with 30 pounds of weight on your shoulders or spread all around your torso?

[Tonitrus]

I'm really bad with weights and have no clue how much 30 pounds is but...surely modern soldiers carry around so much on their back when they're out marching?
And that's not very evenly distributed.

WWI infantrymen carried something like 250 lbs in their pack IIRC (I've got the actual numbers somewhere, but I'm not going to look it up--and of course if varied a bit from one country to another).  WWII soldiers didn't have that much of a load, and most modern infanty has a bit less than the WWII era I think, but it's still way more than 30 lbs, and as stated, it's not evenly distributed.

Not unless they were ants and could carry 2x their body weight.

What about giant ants?

[Valmy]

I wish I could remember the book that said one of the factors in the decline in the Roman army was them not wearing their armor as they marched around and started having it carted around for them.

Did the Roman Army really decline all that much?  Even in their decadence they rarely lost a battle.

[Viking]

I wish I could remember the book that said one of the factors in the decline in the Roman army was them not wearing their armor as they marched around and started having it carted around for them.

Did the Roman Army really decline all that much?  Even in their decadence they rarely lost a battle.

The corrolary to that is that in their decadence they knew that they couldn't win the battle so they preferred not to fight it.

[Ed Anger]

I wish I could remember the book that said one of the factors in the decline in the Roman army was them not wearing their armor as they marched around and started having it carted around for them.

Did the Roman Army really decline all that much?  Even in their decadence they rarely lost a battle.

I'd assume relying on barbs and butter in hair wearers counts as a decline.

[Razgovory]

A mail shirt isn't that heavy for a man in good shape, 20-30 pounds depending on how long (to hips or knees). Plus it's equally distributed across your body.

It's not distributed equally across your body.  Most of the weight is on your shoulders.

But that's exacty where you want to carry weight from.  Why do you think they make backpacks?

Where else would you carry a heavy pack from, but your shoulders?  You carry it from your shoulders because there's not really anywhere else to carry it from.  Still, it's not evenly distributed.

[Razgovory]

I have a friend who's into medieval armor and has a chain shirt. According to him, it's not something you'd enjoy wearing constantly - as was said, the weight is mostly on the shoulders. Plate (the type used in actual combat, not ceremonial full armor) is a different story, being much better distributed around your body, to the extent that you could swim or do cartwheels in it if you were fit enough.

I suspect modern reproduction mail is lighter then mail used in the middle ages.  I imagine they use lighter alloys now.  Hardness is not important in a reproduction, while it was at that time.  Quality was probably spotty though.

[jimmy olsen]

Now, after antiquity, it was not all that common, at least until the High Middle Ages.  Before 1000 (as a rough year), it was for leaders, richer cavalry, and the nobs.

I didn't realize Orks wore chainmail in 40k.

[Siege]

Combat load for air assault missions adds 100 lbs to your body weight.
Average is about 70, though.

Bare basic combat load (helmet, body armor (front, back and side plates), 210 rounds of 5.56mm, M4 Carbine with optics and electronics, Mbitter radio, first aid, camelback with 3 litters of water, PVS-14 night vision equipment with base plate and rhino mount, 1 frag, 1 flash-bang, 1 nine-banger, 1 smoke/signal, eye-pro, tac gloves, knee pads, elbow pads, spare batteries, GPS, map and compass, and you are about 60 lbs over your body weight.

I would assume medival soldiers would take off their helmets any time the enemy wasn't within striking distance, but would wear the mail armor the whole day when campaigning or when on guard duty. But I really don't know. We wear full battle-rattle at all times when outside the FOB, COP, or whatever type of base we are in.

[Siege]

And yes, the shoulders hurt bad when wearing modern armor for any extent of time.

[mongers]

Combat load for air assault missions adds 100 lbs to your body weight.
Average is about 70, though.

Bare basic combat load (helmet, body armor (front, back and side plates), 210 rounds of 5.56mm, M4 Carbine with optics and electronics, Mbitter radio, first aid, camelback with 3 litters of water, PVS-14 night vision equipment with base plate and rhino mount, 1 frag, 1 flash-bang, 1 nine-banger, 1 smoke/signal, eye-pro, tac gloves, knee pads, elbow pads, spare batteries, GPS, map and compass, and you are about 60 lbs over your body weight.

I would assume medival soldiers would take off their helmets any time the enemy wasn't within striking distance, but would wear the mail armor the whole day when campaigning or when on guard duty. But I really don't know. We wear full battle-rattle at all times when outside the FOB, COP, or whatever type of base we are in.

So Seigy how much of a % of your body weight does it represent ?

From my youthful days of lugging around large rucksacks/bergens 25% of your body weight is a good sustainable weight limit to carry. For some if not most western militaries 40% was not at all uncommon.
I suspect nowadays with equipment creep, Seigy's colleagues are going to be transporting around quite a bit more than that 40%, hence the concerns about infantry tactical mobility.

[Siege]

I weight 190 lbs. My soldiers weight from 170 to 220.

[mongers]

I weight 190 lbs. My soldiers weight from 170 to 220.

OK, so it's doable, under 40%, rather than superhuman strength territory. 

What's the weight of all the kit you have to leap out of a Stryker with and how much does it affect you mobility in engagements ?

[Siege]

I weight 190 lbs. My soldiers weight from 170 to 220.

OK, so it's doable, under 40%, rather than superhuman strength territory. 

What's the weight of all the kit you have to leap out of a Stryker with and how much does it affect you mobility in engagements ?

We do stryker operations with bare minimum combat load because the strykers are always nearby to provide resuply and support-by-fire. If we have to move away from the strykers to a position were the strykers cannot get to us, we go "dismounted load" wich adds an assault pack with ammenities like extra ammo and water, TSE kit (tactical site exploitation), MRE rations, spotter scopes, long range radios (ASIPs), litters, etc. Between 70 and 80 lbs per.

Keep in mind we keep in the strykers special assault packs for quick resupply that contain only ammo already loaded in magazines, water and food. If the shit hits the fan and we have to fight in place far from the strykers we can always send a team back to the strykers and bring 3 of those assault packs to resuply our position. The enemy is pretty good at using the terrain to separate us from our vehicle support. We are pretty good at letting the enemy think we cannot fight without vehicle support.