Supreme Court throws Texas elections into disarray over district maps dispute

[Grey Fox]

You guys ever thought of sleeping?

[DGuller]

You guys ever thought of sleeping?

It's not exactly a long-term solution.  I usually get tired again the next day.

[Barrister]

You guys ever thought of sleeping?

It's not exactly a long-term solution.  I usually get tired again the next day.

Unfortunately there is only one long term solution to that particular problem.

[grumbler]

God no.    It tastes like cough medicine, and has such an acrid acidic aftertaste that you can almost feel your tooth enamel dissolving.

False. Especially if you pour it right and most of it misses your taste buds.

He used to be able to drink 5-Hour like you, but then he took an arrow in the knee.

[garbon]

You guys ever thought of sleeping?

I'll only go out for them when it is going to be several long nights of going out back to back. Disco naps just encourage me to stay home.

[grumbler]

Is your point that such laws do not exist, should not exist, or exist but are not based on any objective classification?

There are laws that exist, but they ban racist actions, not actions based on "race."

There are definitely insurance laws and regulation that have to do with disparate impact on minorities (not to mention an outright ban on rating people based on them being a minority).  I'm pretty sure there are many more laws like that.

These laws have to do with perceptions, not with reality in terms of who or what those people are.  Thus, an insurance company can certainly deny insurance to someone, even if they are a member of a given "race."  They just cannot deny it because they believe someone is a member of a given "race."  The law has to do with the insurance company decision-makers perception, not the "race" of the person applying for insurance.

Disparate impact laws are more contentious, in that they are not intentional.  However, the "race" qualification in Title VII is self-identification, so that's certainly a social construct.  It is true that classes have been created in class action suits that don't necessarily include self-identification, but that's just an example of where laws get sticky when dealing with the perception that race exists as a biological fact.  These laws and suits seem to be necessary at times when dealing with racism, so I can live with that ambiguity.

[Razgovory]

What is government if words have no meaning?

[dps]

The relevance is that one changes over time (see views on race in 1800 vs 1880 in the USA), while one is much more fixed (I would assume that biology doesn't change that fast). 

This plays a role (and makes the difference important) because a social construct become "natural" to those who are within the culture - an unchanging aspect is assumed and these drive the discussions on such things as, say, election laws.  This is why race is real and at the same time not biologically real.

But what's the relevance of that to this particular discussion?  If someone was arguing that race should be a factor that's taken into consideration in drawing congressional district borders, then I see why the question of whether or not race is biologically real or a construct would be relevant.  But unless I've missed or misread some posts, no one here is arguing that--instead, anyone who has addressed the topic has said that it shouldn't be a consideration. 

[grumbler]

But what's the relevance of that to this particular discussion?  If someone was arguing that race should be a factor that's taken into consideration in drawing congressional district borders, then I see why the question of whether or not race is biologically real or a construct would be relevant.  But unless I've missed or misread some posts, no one here is arguing that--instead, anyone who has addressed the topic has said that it shouldn't be a consideration.

I am arguing that "race" shouldn't be a consideration when drawing up congressional districts.  Nor should the residences of the incumbents, nor the voting patterns of the precincts.  Congressional districts should be as compact as geography and the balance of population allow.  Anything else is an effort to make the franchise of some voters worth more than that of others.

[dps]

But what's the relevance of that to this particular discussion?  If someone was arguing that race should be a factor that's taken into consideration in drawing congressional district borders, then I see why the question of whether or not race is biologically real or a construct would be relevant.  But unless I've missed or misread some posts, no one here is arguing that--instead, anyone who has addressed the topic has said that it shouldn't be a consideration.

I am arguing that "race" shouldn't be a consideration when drawing up congressional districts.  Nor should the residences of the incumbents, nor the voting patterns of the precincts.  Congressional districts should be as compact as geography and the balance of population allow.  Anything else is an effort to make the franchise of some voters worth more than that of others.

I don't disagree with any of that. 

Do you agree that while that's the way it should be, it's not the case in practice in most cases?

[grumbler]

Do you agree that while that's the way it should be, it's not the case in practice in most cases?

That was my original point; the Texas legislature gerrymandered to achieve a political outcome that they desired, and then the court stepped in to gerrymander in favor of the judge's desired political outcome.  Both of those processes devalued the institutions involved.

Is this how it works elsewhere?  Yes.  Is it how is should work?  No.  It is the classic example of politicians finding themselves up to their ass in alligators and so so busy fighting 'gators that they forget that they were originally supposed to drain the swamp.

[DGuller]

If my job is to drain the swamp, and I'm up to my ass in alligators, I sure as hell would fight alligators with all my energy and attention.  I can't drain the swamp if I'm eaten by alligators.

[Josquius]

If my job is to drain the swamp, and I'm up to my ass in alligators, I sure as hell would fight alligators with all my energy and attention.  I can't drain the swamp if I'm eaten by alligators.

They could just get a long pipe and do it from a safe distance rather than jumping in to wrestle alligators.

[Razgovory]

If my job is to drain the swamp, and I'm up to my ass in alligators, I sure as hell would fight alligators with all my energy and attention.  I can't drain the swamp if I'm eaten by alligators.

They could just get a long pipe and do it from a safe distance rather than jumping in to wrestle alligators.

Is that how you drain a swamp?  I thought you dug trenches and stuff.  You know, diverting rivers and streams and stuff.