The Great War

[The Brain]

Conrad comes across as very annoying in the history books. Of course his country was retarded but that's not a great excuse.

[Valmy]

I think Falkenhayn deserves some points for realizing the true nature of the war. ie. his Verdun offensive was for attrition not the elusive breakthrough. It's a sad ironic thing that if he wasn't so convinced that a true breakthrough was impossible, it might, it might just had happened at the opening phase of that offensive. But as I said, IIRC he was the first high level decision maker to not only realize how that war could be won, but also acted on it.

But German and French casualties were just about equal at Verdun as were Allied and German casualties on the Somme.  Trading man for man with the Allies was not an attrition tactic that was going to work.

I do not think the Germans could have broken through at the opening phase of the offensive but they could have taken Verdun and forced the French to take up positions behind the Meuse.  Which is precisely why Falkenhayn didn't want to do it.

[Valmy]

Conrad comes across as very annoying in the history books. Of course his country was retarded but that's not a great excuse.

He was one of the primary reasons his country acted so retarded.

[Tamas]

I think Falkenhayn deserves some points for realizing the true nature of the war. ie. his Verdun offensive was for attrition not the elusive breakthrough. It's a sad ironic thing that if he wasn't so convinced that a true breakthrough was impossible, it might, it might just had happened at the opening phase of that offensive. But as I said, IIRC he was the first high level decision maker to not only realize how that war could be won, but also acted on it.

But German and French casualties were just about equal at Verdun as were Allied and German casualties on the Somme.  Trading man for man with the Allies was not an attrition tactic that was going to work.

Well yes. At the end he made the wrong conclusion out of an otherwise perfectly correct (and again: early, compared to his enemies) realization. But trading casualities at a 1:1 rating was surely not the original plan for the offensive.

[dps]

I think Falkenhayn deserves some points for realizing the true nature of the war. ie. his Verdun offensive was for attrition not the elusive breakthrough. It's a sad ironic thing that if he wasn't so convinced that a true breakthrough was impossible, it might, it might just had happened at the opening phase of that offensive. But as I said, IIRC he was the first high level decision maker to not only realize how that war could be won, but also acted on it.

But German and French casualties were just about equal at Verdun as were Allied and German casualties on the Somme.  Trading man for man with the Allies was not an attrition tactic that was going to work.

The attack at Verdun was designed to maximize French casualties while minimizing German casualties, and was not concerned with actually advancing and taking territory.  As it happened, however, the initial attack was so successful that the Germans couldn't resist the temptation to try and sieze Verdun, with the predictable outcome of their casualties increasing dramatically.  If they had stuck with the plan, they might have acheived a favorable kill ratio.

[Valmy]

Well yes. At the end he made the wrong conclusion out of an otherwise perfectly correct (and again: early, compared to his enemies) realization. But trading casualities at a 1:1 rating was surely not the original plan for the offensive.

Well to fair to him the game changed alot between 1915 and 1916.  Advances in artillery and infantry tactics and weapons outpaced his strategic thinking.  But that happened all the time to generals in that war.

[Valmy]

The attack at Verdun was designed to maximize French casualties while minimizing German casualties, and was not concerned with actually advancing and taking territory.  As it happened, however, the initial attack was so successful that the Germans couldn't resist the temptation to try and sieze Verdun, with the predictable outcome of their casualties increasing dramatically.  If they had stuck with the plan, they might have acheived a favorable kill ratio.

That is a good point.  Those kinds of considerations ruined many a WWI plan.

[The Brain]

The Verdun battlefield is awesome.

[dps]

The attack at Verdun was designed to maximize French casualties while minimizing German casualties, and was not concerned with actually advancing and taking territory.  As it happened, however, the initial attack was so successful that the Germans couldn't resist the temptation to try and sieze Verdun, with the predictable outcome of their casualties increasing dramatically.  If they had stuck with the plan, they might have acheived a favorable kill ratio.

That is a good point.  Those kinds of considerations ruined many a WWI plan.

What's interesting is that I've often seen wargamers playing WWI games make the same kind of mistakes, even though we have the benefit of hindsight and know to a great extent what does and doesn't work.  For example, in March to Victory/Over There, experienced players know that it's a mistake to advance the BEF into the Brussels area in the opening turn, because that lets any Central Powers player who's not completely inept cut the BEF to ribbons.  Yet, if the CP player give the Entente an opportunity to move the BEF into central Belgium, 9 times out of 10, the Entente takes the bait.  In fact, often the CP players will be less aggressive than they probably should be (the Germans can actually be at the Franco-Belguim border west of Brussels before the Entente gets to move it the CP is aggressive enough) because they know that the BEF will advance too far east given the chance.

[Admiral Yi]

Mackensen.

[Habbaku]

Mackensen.

[Ed Anger]

I like his giant deaths head.



So dreamy.

[Admiral Yi]

I like his gentle, approachable demeanor.

Chapeau is very nice too.

[Neil]

Conrad annoys me.  His failure to exterminate the Serbian race is unforgivable.

[Razgovory]

Conrad annoys me.  His failure to exterminate the Serbian race is unforgivable.

It's not like you have made much progress on that front.