ABB not sane, will not be found guilty.

[Viking]

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=no&sl=no&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vg.no%2Fnyheter%2Finnenriks%2Foslobomben%2Fartikkel.php%3Fartid%3D10016366

The Court Psychiatrists have determined that ABB is not criminally liable for the Utøya massacre and Oslo Bombing. (lawyers please correct my phrasing here if neccessary) The effect of this is that he will not be found guilty and he will not be sent to prison. He will be sent to a hospital for the criminally insane. Potentially to be released when the mental health service determines that he is no longer psychotic and no longer a danger to society.

The idea that he might be out after 3-5 years of treatment like the tram-killer which was a mentally disturbed somali man (slargos posted about him some time ago) that when refused treatment attacked a tram full of communters with a Rambo Knife killing one and injuring many, he was found mentally incapable and released within two years from a mental health institution. He demanded compensation due to him being initially denied treatment; makes me sick and will make the norwegian population sick.

It seems that if ABB takes his pills and tells the psychiatrists what they want to hear and behaves well norway will be faced with the possiblity that he might be let out after only a few years.

There seems to be some suggesting, however, that he might go to prison once he is "cured". I don't know how that might work, and would like to hear if anybody does.

Norwegian custom on topics like this suggest that a Lex-ABB or a special departmenal procedure-ABB (that violates his rights but nobody bothers to challenge) might be produced.

[CountDeMoney]

Even if her were found criminally liable, he'd only do 3-5 years anyway.  This is Europe we're talking about.

[Viking]

Update: There will still be a trial which will not find him innocent or guilty but rather determin the facts.

I've been trying to find some concrete evidence that he will go to prison if he is found sane after a few years; but I can't find any. The case seems to be that everybody expects the government to do something about it while nobody seems to be able to suggest any legal reason for the government to do so.

[Sheilbh]

Do the court psychiatrists decide?  In the UK insanity is an issue for the court to decide, it's not handed over to particular medical professionals.

[Razgovory]

You guys must have a much different standard of criminally insane then we do.

[CountDeMoney]

I've been trying to find some concrete evidence that he will go to prison if he is found sane after a few years; but I can't find any. The case seems to be that everybody expects the government to do something about it while nobody seems to be able to suggest any legal reason for the government to do so.

Which is why, in about 4 years, you'll be posting a minor news piece found on the 6th page about how he's being released back into society.

[Viking]

Do the court psychiatrists decide?  In the UK insanity is an issue for the court to decide, it's not handed over to particular medical professionals.

In Norway the Court appoints a panel of experts determines the issue. It is not left to the judge or the jury to have to decide which of the competing experts is correct. This is one of the things I like about Civil Law (as opposed to Common Law's take on the issue).

[OttoVonBismarck]

I sort of like America's approach where the guys who are legitimately insane and have killed a bunch of people go to a mental hospital but it's pretty much understood it's a "permanent move." Mainly because once moved in, the doctors have to sign off on his being released and in the vast majority of cases where you have a mass murderer doctors are going to be highly unlikely to ever say that the individual is no longer a threat to themselves or others. I think our civil tort system has made doctor's intrinsically more conservative (even though they wouldn't face malpractice claims or anything for releasing a person that was still a threat, I contend the cultural conservatism about diagnoses carries over into things like this.)

[Barrister]

I have to say I'm shocked at that decision.

I've dealt with "criminally insane" cases and over here it's generally limited to the schizophrenics - people hearing and seeing things that don't actually exist.  You can have a lot of sympathy for such people, even after they commit violent crimes.

But what exactly is ABB's "illness"?  What is his diagnosis?

[Viking]

I have to say I'm shocked at that decision.

I've dealt with "criminally insane" cases and over here it's generally limited to the schizophrenics - people hearing and seeing things that don't actually exist.  You can have a lot of sympathy for such people, even after they commit violent crimes.

But what exactly is ABB's "illness"?  What is his diagnosis?

Paranoid Schitzophrenia

[Viking]

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=no&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=no&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aftenposten.no%2Fnyheter%2Firiks%2FDette-betyr-rettspsykiaternes-konklusjoner-6709621.html

What is criminally insane?

According to the Penal Code, a person who was psychotic, high-grade mentally retarded or unconscious in the deed does not punishable by imprisonment. A psychosis is a medical term for a mental condition in which the person has a different perception of reality. Hallucinations and delusions are common symptoms.

A defendant who is not criminally sane can be transferred to compulsory health care when the court considers it necessary to protect society. The goal is that medical treatment will make the person healthy, but they may end up spending the rest of his life in an institution.

What happens next in the matter now?

The forensic commission will now consider whether the circuit psychiatric report about Anders Breivik Behring standard. This is a clean professional quality viewing on the premises and the conclusion is tenable. It is very rare that the Commission disapproves of a report from the appointed professionals.

Commission vurrdering will still take several weeks. Then, the more specific planning of the trial start.

How does this conclusion the trial?

There will still be pursued extensive litigation against Behring Anders Breivik, and it will shed light on the actual events as thoroughly as if Breivik had been considered sane. The report primarily affects the question of sentencing.

The report from the right psychiatrists are basically advisory to the court, but it is rarely the right choose to ignore such a statement,

In practice this means that Breivik will be sentenced to compulsory psyskisk health care and transferred to the health care system.

[Razgovory]

I have to say I'm shocked at that decision.

I've dealt with "criminally insane" cases and over here it's generally limited to the schizophrenics - people hearing and seeing things that don't actually exist.  You can have a lot of sympathy for such people, even after they commit violent crimes.

But what exactly is ABB's "illness"?  What is his diagnosis?

Paranoid Schitzophrenia

Being a right winger is not a form of Schizophrenia.  It's not something you can really hide well.  If he really was Schizo then people who met him would have commented on it.  Untreated schizophrenia is pretty easy to spot.  You tend to toward incoherence and stereotyped speech patterns.  Not to mention hallucinations and the like.

[DGuller]

This decision strikes me as criminally insane.

[Viking]

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=no&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=no&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.adressa.no%2Fnyheter%2Fterrorangrepet%2Farticle1734893.ece

Basically he will be evaluated every 3 years to see if he is not a danger to society. Once he is no longer a danger and can be released ino the community there will be no more reason to keep him in psychitatric care. Yes, he can be out in three years. There will still be a trial to establish the facts.

If Anders Breivik Behring would be healthy and no longer pose a danger to society, he can in theory be out in three years.

Today it was announced that the experts have concluded that the terrorist accused Anders Behring Breivik was criminally insane during the terrorist attacks. That means he can not be sentenced to imprisonment or detention, but most likely will be compulsory mental health care at a hospital.

If Breivik is healthy and no longer considered to pose a danger to society, he could escape.

- If he is not considered to be psychotic, but still pose a danger to society, then there is a possibility that he will be transferred to another department of the hospital. It is not a regulation that is widely used, but there is an opening. If he is not considered a danger to society, not the sentence could be longer, said District Attorney Inga Bejer Engh questions from journalists Simen Gran Creek in Adresseavisen.

It was during a press conference with prosecutors Holden Sven and Inga Bejer Engh that this was made known.
- Can apply for the release

- As a professional, I am not surprised at the conclusion of the experts right psychiatrists, says Tor Langenbach in Court Administration.

- What does it mean if Behring Breivik will be sentenced to compulsory psychiatric care?

- It means he is subject to compulsory psychiatric treatment. He can not be sentenced to imprisonment. In theory this means that he can get treatment for three years, and he is cured of it, he can be released. He may in fact after a certain period of compulsory psychiatric treatment covet their release. It will then be created a case where it is assessed if the person is healthy and there is a risk of recurrence. Is not it, let him free.

- What impact will the assessment of right psychiatrists get at the trial?

- It will be essential. There is a clear report that will never be set aside, says Langenbach.

The court has the opportunity to reject the report, but it is extremely rare, according to Langenbach.

Just Psychiatry Torgeir Husby and Synne Sørheim have found that Breivik was psychotic when he massacred children in Utøya and exploded a bomb in the government quarter. The experts also believe that he has developed the disorder paranoid schizophrenia for a long time. Breivik According to the report is not criminally accountable. If the court reaches the same so he can not be sentenced to ordinary imprisonment or detention.

Can be kept in a lifetime

According to the Penal Code (§ 44), a person who was psychotic, high-grade mentally retarded or unconscious in the deed does not punished.

The person to be discharged when the person is considered healthy, but they may end up not come back out in society.

- A sentence of compulsory mental health care must be extended every three years. The original sentence is applied. The Court will only decide whether the conditions are still met for involuntary psychiatric care, that the convicted person is still a danger to society. Transfer to mental health services should be maintained as long as is needed, says Bejer Engh in the press conference.

[The Minsky Moment]

Do the court psychiatrists decide?  In the UK insanity is an issue for the court to decide, it's not handed over to particular medical professionals.

In Norway the Court appoints a panel of experts determines the issue. It is not left to the judge or the jury to have to decide which of the competing experts is correct. This is one of the things I like about Civil Law (as opposed to Common Law's take on the issue).

It is one thing to use independent court-appointed experts as opposed to duelling adversarial experts.  That makes a certain amount of sense where technical knowledge is involved.

But it is another thing altogether for the Court to abdicate its functions completely, and delegate decisions on the final disposition of criminal matters to a panel of scientific experts.