‘It Gets Heated’: Twin Sisters Divided Over Occupy Wall Street

[Malthus]

Ya, as a job description that beats most out there

Also, i'm not saying those transported humans would be wiped out in a week of arriving. They'd probably do very well (ignoring stuff like oxygen levels and disease). Humans are really good at killing stuff. This is made doubly impressive that as a predator we're awkwardly built. We can't see very well, can't smell very well, we're weak and have no claws or effective teeth. We're smart and have amazing endurance. i'm just not on timmy boat that they'd arrive and become new kings of the world. Short faced bears, sabertooth tigers, cave lions and my personal favourite those giant ass wolves are all impressive and all deadly, but tiny in comparrison to dinos.

I dunno If I'd describe a bear the size of an elephant as "tiny".  It may be smaller than the largest predatory dinos, but it would give the majority a run for their money ...

[Berkut]

Ya, as a job description that beats most out there

Also, i'm not saying those transported humans would be wiped out in a week of arriving. They'd probably do very well (ignoring stuff like oxygen levels and disease). Humans are really good at killing stuff. This is made doubly impressive that as a predator we're awkwardly built. We can't see very well, can't smell very well, we're weak and have no claws or effective teeth. We're smart and have amazing endurance. i'm just not on timmy boat that they'd arrive and become new kings of the world. Short faced bears, sabertooth tigers, cave lions and my personal favourite those giant ass wolves are all impressive and all deadly, but tiny in comparrison to dinos.

One theory about the rise of humans as predators is actually based on our ability to see extremely well compared to other predators, in that we have eyes on top of a tall body, which is ideally suited for hunting in the plains, since it means you can see your prey with minimal exposure yourself.

[HVC]

Ya, as a job description that beats most out there

Also, i'm not saying those transported humans would be wiped out in a week of arriving. They'd probably do very well (ignoring stuff like oxygen levels and disease). Humans are really good at killing stuff. This is made doubly impressive that as a predator we're awkwardly built. We can't see very well, can't smell very well, we're weak and have no claws or effective teeth. We're smart and have amazing endurance. i'm just not on timmy boat that they'd arrive and become new kings of the world. Short faced bears, sabertooth tigers, cave lions and my personal favourite those giant ass wolves are all impressive and all deadly, but tiny in comparrison to dinos.

I dunno If I'd describe a bear the size of an elephant as "tiny".  It may be smaller than the largest predatory dinos, but it would give the majority a run for their money ...

i had only looked at the wiki one . didn't look that big (though i'd shit myself if i saw one up close haha)

[Malthus]

I think the decline in most apex predators in the face of humanity is generally thought to be more based on humans out-compteing them for prey, rather than humans hunting them as prey.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that predators make crappy prey - they usually don't have much edible meat on them relative to the amount of energy needed to kill one, at least compared to prey animals.

I think it was a combo - humans on occasion killed predators off, and more commonly killed off their prey. 

The primary reason to hunt apex predators, if modern human behaviour is any guide, was not simply as handy food, but to demonstrate prowess, for purposes of magic and ritual, and to eliminate a potential threat.

Humans have always found apex predators awesome - there's a Timmay in every era  - and what could be a more convincing demonstration of a tribe's power than bringing one down and using its skull in rituals?

There is some evidence this happened - for example, some caves featuring prehistoric cave-paintings also feature bear skulls arranged in a purposeful pattern. Unknown as to whether the skulls were trophies or scavanged, of course. 

[Berkut]

I would guess that once humans started settling down (whether that be real settlements or just defined ranges) there was considerable pressure to kill off other apex predators simply so that humans could have all the prey to themselves.

Hell, this is kind of the first step towards domestication of herd animals, I would guess. Kill off all the other threats to them...

[Ideologue]

I think the decline in most apex predators in the face of humanity is generally thought to be more based on humans out-compteing them for prey, rather than humans hunting them as prey.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that predators make crappy prey - they usually don't have much edible meat on them relative to the amount of energy needed to kill one, at least compared to prey animals.

I think it was a combo - humans on occasion killed predators off, and more commonly killed off their prey. 

The primary reason to hunt apex predators, if modern human behaviour is any guide, was not simply as handy food, but to demonstrate prowess, for purposes of magic and ritual, and to eliminate a potential threat.

Humans have always found apex predators awesome - there's a Timmay in every era  - and what could be a more convincing demonstration of a tribe's power than bringing one down and using its skull in rituals?

There is some evidence this happened - for example, some caves featuring prehistoric cave-paintings also feature bear skulls arranged in a purposeful pattern. Unknown as to whether the skulls were trophies or scavanged, of course.

That's why we're so great: we're the only species that can consciously devote itself to a campaign of extermination.  Fuck you, cave bears!

[Razgovory]

Human beings also tend to kill predators to get rid of competition.

[jimmy olsen]

ya, but mammoths weren't trying to track us down and eat us either. Humans have been prey for many a large mammal until fairly recently in our species' time frame. Make that predator a few tonnes and spears wouldn't be as effective as you imagine. Could humans kill a T-Rex? sure. Could we as a stone age species over throw them and the other large predators? I don't see it.

Also, T-Rex's did hunt in packs, they think anyway. Juveniles and their parents.

That's speculative. I've read a ton of books on dinosaurs, and unless something new has come out in the last few years I don't think that's been proved.

[jimmy olsen]

I wonder if the increased oxygen would make the humans larger.  Also wonder if there were any plants they could domesticate.  Domesticating dinosaurs would be tricky, due to the long maturation, large size, and low intelligence.

i thought they had less oxygen back then?

Nope.  In the Cretaceous, the atmosphere had 50% more oxygen, and also ~500% more CO2, but not enough to pose a health hazard so far as I know--at least in the short term; long-term exposure to five- or sixfold CO2 levels may manifest some bad effects.  Actually, though, I suspect some devices might have to be redesigned to work properly--internal combustion engines specifically.  And heightened O2 may mean greater incidence of cancer?  I dunno, I'm not a doctor.

that's what i meant, as a mixture there was less oxygen. So for each breath you got less oxygen then you do now. As a general rule mammallian lungs sucks. That's why i was confused becasue i thought a theory for tiny mammals was that there just wasn't enough oxygen in the air.

People live fine in the Andes and Himalayas, they can adjust.

[Razgovory]

Is that why climbers take oxygen up there?

[HVC]

People live fine in the Andes and Himalayas, they can adjust.

it's not just a matter of thin oxygen. Different oxygen mixes affect the transfer of CO2 and Oxygen in the blood. Also, high altitude people are not the most active bunch. Sure they don't get altitude sickness like others, but low oxygen levels (let alone high CO2 levels) should not be ignored. Humans, even those with a higher blood cell count like sherpas, are ill adapted.

[HVC]

also, how the hell did we get onto the topic of time traveling cavemen.

[crazy canuck]

also, how the hell did we get onto the topic of time traveling cavemen.

Timmay!

[jimmy olsen]

Is that why climbers take oxygen up there?

Obviously not talking about the peaks of Everest here. 

People have adapted to living on the Tibetan plateau and other places with a lot less oxygen.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/02/0224_040225_evolution.html

A giant Komodo Dragon lived in Australia that was 5-7 meters long. It went mysteriously extinct after the aborigines showed up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megalania#Size

[Jacob]

A giant Komodo Dragon lived in Australia that was 5-7 meters long. It went mysteriously extinct after the aborigines showed up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megalania#Size

I'm pretty sure that Australia is more than 5-7 metres long.