‘It Gets Heated’: Twin Sisters Divided Over Occupy Wall Street

[jimmy olsen]

A stone age band of hunters could surely kill a Tyrannosaurus.

If you transported a few thousands paleolithic H. sapiens to 85 million years ago ala Terra Nova I don't think they'd have to difficult a time spreading all over the world.

The way the Terra Nova writers have it, 22d century man still has a bit of trouble. 

I doubt dinos were as bullet-resistant as depicted in that show, but versus stone age weapons and nets? I think the hominids would end up dwelling in caves and densely packed forests while the big dinosaurs still dominated the plains.

If men could kill Imperial Mammoths, then they could certainly kill Dinosaurs.

Also, modern urban people are obviously going to do to more poorly in an untouched wilderness than hunter gatherers.

[jimmy olsen]

I wonder if the increased oxygen would make the humans larger.  Also wonder if there were any plants they could domesticate.  Domesticating dinosaurs would be tricky, due to the long maturation, large size, and low intelligence.

Chickens are extremely dumb and basically dinosaurs and we domesticated them.

If you think humans need some more advantages send some of the tribes back that first domesticated the dog.

[HVC]

I wonder if the increased oxygen would make the humans larger.  Also wonder if there were any plants they could domesticate.  Domesticating dinosaurs would be tricky, due to the long maturation, large size, and low intelligence.

i thought they had less oxygen back then?

[Ideologue]

I wonder if the increased oxygen would make the humans larger.  Also wonder if there were any plants they could domesticate.  Domesticating dinosaurs would be tricky, due to the long maturation, large size, and low intelligence.

i thought they had less oxygen back then?

Nope.  In the Cretaceous, the atmosphere had 50% more oxygen, and also ~500% more CO2, but not enough to pose a health hazard so far as I know--at least in the short term; long-term exposure to five- or sixfold CO2 levels may manifest some bad effects.  Actually, though, I suspect some devices might have to be redesigned to work properly--internal combustion engines specifically.  And heightened O2 may mean greater incidence of cancer?  I dunno, I'm not a doctor.

[HVC]

If men could kill Imperial Mammoths, then they could certainly kill Dinosaurs.

ya, but mammoths weren't trying to track us down and eat us either. Humans have been prey for many a large mammal until fairly recently in our species' time frame. Make that predator a few tonnes and spears wouldn't be as effective as you imagine. Could humans kill a T-Rex? sure. Could we as a stone age species over throw them and the other large predators? I don't see it.

Also, T-Rex's did hunt in packs, they think anyway. Juveniles and their parents.

[Ideologue]

Why would a T. rex try to hunt down and attack humans?  It'd be like stalking a rat.  Anyway, insofar as they do present a threat and competitor, spears aren't the only option: covered pitfalls may work better.  And this is well, because predators have no rights.

Also, and this has nothing to do with anything, they replaced their teeth.  Isn't it kind of bullshit that humans don't grow new teeth?  It's total bullshit.  Intelligent design my ass.

[HVC]

I wonder if the increased oxygen would make the humans larger.  Also wonder if there were any plants they could domesticate.  Domesticating dinosaurs would be tricky, due to the long maturation, large size, and low intelligence.

i thought they had less oxygen back then?

Nope.  In the Cretaceous, the atmosphere had 50% more oxygen, and also ~500% more CO2, but not enough to pose a health hazard so far as I know--at least in the short term; long-term exposure to five- or sixfold CO2 levels may manifest some bad effects.  Actually, though, I suspect some devices might have to be redesigned to work properly--internal combustion engines specifically.  And heightened O2 may mean greater incidence of cancer?  I dunno, I'm not a doctor.

that's what i meant, as a mixture there was less oxygen. So for each breath you got less oxygen then you do now. As a general rule mammallian lungs sucks. That's why i was confused becasue i thought a theory for tiny mammals was that there just wasn't enough oxygen in the air.

[HVC]

Why would a T. rex try to hunt down and attack humans?  Do humans stalk rats?

Of course, tyrannosaurs may not have been hunting predators anyhow.  Also, and this has nothing to do with anything, they replaced their teeth.  Isn't it kind of bullshit that humans don't grow new teeth?  It's total bullshit.  Intelligent design my ass.

Now, no (unless you're ina third world) in the past? yup. delicasy if you were roman. Predators hunt easy things. We get easy steaks so we leave relatively (compared to steaks ) hard to catch mice alone. As a t-rex would you rather hunt one large spiky and hard prey item or several squishy humans throwing sharp sticks (also, throwing spears are relatively new to humans. most were trusting spears until we invented the throwing dart).

[Eddie Teach]

Why would a T. rex try to hunt down and attack humans?  Do humans stalk rats?

Of course, tyrannosaurs may not have been hunting predators anyhow.  Also, and this has nothing to do with anything, they replaced their teeth.  Isn't it kind of bullshit that humans don't grow new teeth?  It's total bullshit.  Intelligent design my ass.

Ours last as long as we were meant to live.

[The Brain]

Why would a T. rex try to hunt down and attack humans?  Do humans stalk rats?

Of course, tyrannosaurs may not have been hunting predators anyhow.  Also, and this has nothing to do with anything, they replaced their teeth.  Isn't it kind of bullshit that humans don't grow new teeth?  It's total bullshit.  Intelligent design my ass.

Now, no (unless you're ina third world) in the past? yup. delicasy if you were roman. Predators hunt easy things. We get easy steaks so we leave relatively (compared to steaks ) hard to catch mice alone. As a t-rex would you rather hunt one large spiky and hard prey item or several squishy humans throwing sharp sticks (also, throwing spears are relatively new to humans. most were trusting spears until we invented the throwing dart).

I bet dinos loved getting fire thust in their faces.

[Ideologue]

Anyway, H, like I said (but it was in an edit), spears aren't the only option.  I'd try pitfalls, tripwires, and other traps before trying to directly assault something so large.

Why would a T. rex try to hunt down and attack humans?  Do humans stalk rats?

Of course, tyrannosaurs may not have been hunting predators anyhow.  Also, and this has nothing to do with anything, they replaced their teeth.  Isn't it kind of bullshit that humans don't grow new teeth?  It's total bullshit.  Intelligent design my ass.

Ours last as long as we were meant to live.

Fuck you, Kirk Cameron.  I want new teeth.

[Malthus]

If men could kill Imperial Mammoths, then they could certainly kill Dinosaurs.

ya, but mammoths weren't trying to track us down and eat us either. Humans have been prey for many a large mammal until fairly recently in our species' time frame. Make that predator a few tonnes and spears wouldn't be as effective as you imagine. Could humans kill a T-Rex? sure. Could we as a stone age species over throw them and the other large predators? I don't see it.

Also, T-Rex's did hunt in packs, they think anyway. Juveniles and their parents.

I dunno, primitive humans apparently hunted some serious predators to extinction - like the giant short-faced bear. In fact, human predation has been blamed on the disappearance of a number of giant predators throughout the world - all in prehistory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short-faced_bear

Check out thge comparative size chart here ...

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/02/110203-biggest-bear-largest-giant-short-faced-animals-science/

Turns out those tool-making, fire-using apes are serious bad news for apex predators everywhere ...

On a similar note, I just read a book by a guy named Jim Corbett called Man-Eaters of Kumaon - apparently this was the guy the Indian gov't called on in the 1910s through 1930s to dispose of tigers that for various reasons (usually an injury) became dedicated person-eaters. Some of them racked up impressive numbers of kills - one tiger ate something like 400 Indians before biting a bullet. But those were the exceptions - allegedly, generally tigers avoid eating people, probably as a result of natural selection (those that found people tasty tended to die).

Anyway, old Jim clearly had the most macho job  in the universe - "what do you do?" - "I hunt tigers - but only the man-eating ones" 

[Ideologue]

Did any of the terror bird-types survive to coexist with humans?  Iirc, some of them were functionally utahraptors.

[HVC]

Ya, as a job description that beats most out there

Also, i'm not saying those transported humans would be wiped out in a week of arriving. They'd probably do very well (ignoring stuff like oxygen levels and disease). Humans are really good at killing stuff. This is made doubly impressive that as a predator we're awkwardly built. We can't see very well, can't smell very well, we're weak and have no claws or effective teeth. We're smart and have amazing endurance. i'm just not on timmy boat that they'd arrive and become new kings of the world. Short faced bears, sabertooth tigers, cave lions and my personal favourite those giant ass wolves are all impressive and all deadly, but tiny in comparrison to dinos.

[Berkut]

If men could kill Imperial Mammoths, then they could certainly kill Dinosaurs.

ya, but mammoths weren't trying to track us down and eat us either. Humans have been prey for many a large mammal until fairly recently in our species' time frame. Make that predator a few tonnes and spears wouldn't be as effective as you imagine. Could humans kill a T-Rex? sure. Could we as a stone age species over throw them and the other large predators? I don't see it.

Also, T-Rex's did hunt in packs, they think anyway. Juveniles and their parents.

I dunno, primitive humans apparently hunted some serious predators to extinction - like the giant short-faced bear. In fact, human predation has been blamed on the disappearance of a number of giant predators throughout the world - all in prehistory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short-faced_bear

Check out thge comparative size chart here ...

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/02/110203-biggest-bear-largest-giant-short-faced-animals-science/

Turns out those tool-making, fire-using apes are serious bad news for apex predators everywhere ...

On a similar note, I just read a book by a guy named Jim Corbett called Man-Eaters of Kumaon - apparently this was the guy the Indian gov't called on in the 1910s through 1930s to dispose of tigers that for various reasons (usually an injury) became dedicated person-eaters. Some of them racked up impressive numbers of kills - one tiger ate something like 400 Indians before biting a bullet. But those were the exceptions - allegedly, generally tigers avoid eating people, probably as a result of natural selection (those that found people tasty tended to die).

Anyway, old Jim clearly had the most macho job  in the universe - "what do you do?" - "I hunt tigers - but only the man-eating ones" 

I think the decline in most apex predators in the face of humanity is generally thought to be more based on humans out-compteing them for prey, rather than humans hunting them as prey.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that predators make crappy prey - they usually don't have much edible meat on them relative to the amount of energy needed to kill one, at least compared to prey animals.