American Gun Ownership Highest In 18 Years

[11B4V]

In this case the guns are child sized.  They are made for the purpose of being used by children.  They are marketed as goods to be used by children. 

The rifles are made for children, but marketed and sold to their parents.  You have to be 18 (or 21 in some places) to buy a rifle, so parents hold all the cards here.

Yes they do.

[derspiess]

All of which is perfectly legal, and I don't even think should really be illegal - at least insofar as I can't really imagine a meaningful way of posig a law to restrict it.

The issue here isn't that these guns are available, it is that there are people who are fanatic enough about gun ownership that they actually create the demand for guns designed for small children.

You might as well sell a car designed for little children, except that it actually goes 65 mph. Gotta teach the little ones about car safety at a young age, dontchaknow!

If they can make a law prohibiting kinder eggs, surely they can make a law banning child-sized firearms...

And both would be stupid laws.

[11B4V]

One of the ways to see that the demand is not met is to cut the supply.

Nanny state.

[11B4V]

The issue here isn't that these guns are available, it is that there are people who are fanatic enough about gun ownership that they actually create the demand for guns designed for small children.

[mongers]

All of which is perfectly legal, and I don't even think should really be illegal - at least insofar as I can't really imagine a meaningful way of posig a law to restrict it.

The issue here isn't that these guns are available, it is that there are people who are fanatic enough about gun ownership that they actually create the demand for guns designed for small children.

You might as well sell a car designed for little children, except that it actually goes 65 mph. Gotta teach the little ones about car safety at a young age, dontchaknow!

If they can make a law prohibiting kinder eggs, surely they can make a law banning child-sized firearms...

I'm guessing there are some nuts out there, demanding foetuses have the right to bear arms. 

[Malthus]

In this case the guns are child sized.  They are made for the purpose of being used by children.  They are marketed as goods to be used by children. 

The rifles are made for children, but marketed and sold to their parents.  You have to be 18 (or 21 in some places) to buy a rifle, so parents hold all the cards here.

There is no doubt that the products are purchased by adults (for one, your average 4 year old lacks the sort of income necessary to buy a rifle).

What you are seemingly missing is the apparent insanity of having a company marketing a product whose purchase for its intended purpose ought, in any sane world, be illegal. I don't care how well-behaved and sensible a given 4 year old is - they should not, under any circumstances, be using firearms. I wouldn't trust a kid that age to cross the street without holding an adult's hand - how on earth are they being trusted with gun safety?

[Malthus]

One of the ways to see that the demand is not met is to cut the supply.

Nanny state.

To my mind, a gun user ought to be licenced in the same way as a car driver, and for the same reason - public safety.

And just as I'd find a company marketing road capable cars to preschoolers an absurdity, I find a company marketing guns to preschoolers an absurdity.

[derspiess]

No one is suggesting that a 4 year old is going to walk into a store and purchase their own gun but just a silly is the concept that a company would make a gun for them to use and market the gun for that purpose.

These rifles are not designed specifically for 4-year olds.  They're "youth rifles", which have been around for a while and are simply designed for anyone with a small enough stature that holding a standard-weight rifle would be awkward (the weight is the differentiating factor between these and adult rifles, not the size, FWIW).

I'd say most kids who use these are in the 9 to 15 year age range, and it's certainly an appropriate product for them to use.

I'd never buy one for my kids, but that's mostly because in 11 or so years I'd be stuck with a useless (to me) rifle.  When my kids are big enough to handle the .22 I had as a teenager, they can shoot that.

[Malthus]

No one is suggesting that a 4 year old is going to walk into a store and purchase their own gun but just a silly is the concept that a company would make a gun for them to use and market the gun for that purpose.

These rifles are not designed specifically for 4-year olds.  They're "youth rifles", which have been around for a while and are simply designed for anyone with a small enough stature that holding a standard-weight rifle would be awkward (the weight is the differentiating factor between these and adult rifles, not the size, FWIW).

I'd say most kids who use these are in the 9 to 15 year age range, and it's certainly an appropriate product for them to use.

I'd never buy one for my kids, but that's mostly because in 11 or so years I'd be stuck with a useless (to me) rifle.  When my kids are big enough to handle the .22 I had as a teenager, they can shoot that.

I guess you haven't actually clicked on the link upthread to the company website. It makes it very clear, through pictures and testimonials (published mind you by the company) that the market is aimed in large part at very young children (meaning the 4-8 year old set), not "youths".

One testimonial was from a proud parent of a 5 year old shooter; and check out the "kid's corner".

http://www.crickett.com/crickett_kidscorner.php?osCsid=p38cacquj25qhl3gd0mun3ucd5

Some of them seem a trifle young to be handling firearms to you?

Also, the company makes gun-friendly books for kids. The FAQ states that the reading age is "grade 2". Last I checked 15 year olds were generally not in grade 2, not even in Kentucky. 

[11B4V]

In this case the guns are child sized.  They are made for the purpose of being used by children.  They are marketed as goods to be used by children. 

The rifles are made for children, but marketed and sold to their parents.  You have to be 18 (or 21 in some places) to buy a rifle, so parents hold all the cards here.

I don't care how well-behaved and sensible a given 4 year old is - they should not, under any circumstances, be using firearms nor being taught how to use them or just handling them. I wouldn't trust a kid that age to cross the street without holding an adult's hand - how on earth are they being trusted with gun safety?

Couldnt agree more and added some.

Hell, I was 10 y/o shooting a 22LR, 14 y/o when I started bird hunting (with a 20 ga.) and deer hunting (Mossberg .308 Winchester) with a high powered rifle. Different culture back then. BTW I still have that 20 ga.

I remember when when I was 8 y/o, my step dad took my mom and me deer hunting up around Susanville, Ca. That was the first time I ever seen a high power rifle being shot. I remember it vividly to this day. He pulled the trigger on that thing (.300 Weatherby) and it seemed the very leaves on the trees shook. Again this from the mind of an 8 y/o who had never seen anything like that before in person.  I was scared to shoot that thing. Didn't shoot it till I was 17. 

[11B4V]

One of the ways to see that the demand is not met is to cut the supply.

Nanny state.

To my mind, a gun user ought to be licenced in the same way as a car driver, and for the same reason - public safety.

I dont disagree with that. People should be licensed to parent kids too.

[Malthus]

In this case the guns are child sized.  They are made for the purpose of being used by children.  They are marketed as goods to be used by children. 

The rifles are made for children, but marketed and sold to their parents.  You have to be 18 (or 21 in some places) to buy a rifle, so parents hold all the cards here.

I don't care how well-behaved and sensible a given 4 year old is - they should not, under any circumstances, be using firearms nor being taught how to use them or just handling them. I wouldn't trust a kid that age to cross the street without holding an adult's hand - how on earth are they being trusted with gun safety?

Couldnt agree more and added some.

Hell, I was 10 y/o shooting a 22LR, 14 y/o when I started bird hunting (with a 20 ga.) and deer hunting (Mossberg .308 Winchester) with a high powered rifle. Different culture back then. BTW I still have that 20 ga.

I remember when when I was 8 y/o, my step dad took my mom and me deer hunting up around Susanville, Ca. That was the first time I ever seen a high power rifle being shot. I remember it vividly to this day. He pulled the trigger on that thing (.300 Weatherby) and it seemed the very leaves on the trees shook. Again this from the mind of an 8 y/o who had never seen anything like that before in person.  I was scared to shoot that thing. Didn't shoot it till I was 17.

My dad taught me gun safety plinking tin cans with a .22 when I was 12 or so. Back then, though, there was no such thing as classes or licensing requirements here in Ontario. Everyone learned that way.

[derspiess]

I guess you haven't actually clicked on the link upthread to the company website. It makes it very clear, through pictures and testimonials (published mind you by the company) that the market is aimed in large part at very young children (meaning the 4-8 year old set), not "youths".

I disagree.  Plenty of those kids look older than 8.

One testimonial was from a proud parent of a 5 year old shooter; and check out the "kid's corner".

I saw that, and I think that's too young.  But it's up to the parent IMO as long as they properly store the rifle and supervise its use.

Also, the company makes gun-friendly books for kids. The FAQ states that the reading age is "grade 2". Last I checked 15 year olds were generally not in grade 2, not even in Kentucky. 

I guess that would be about 8 years old.  Heaven forbid they start teaching kids gun safety at that age!!

[Barrister]

Gun safety at age 8 should be "never pick up a gun.  Call mom or dad if you see an unattended gun".

And I'm no anti-gun-nut.  I have no problem with what you guys are describing - starting to be introduced to a .22 at 10-12 years of age.

It would be difficult to regulate the sale of light-weight firearms.  But you absolutely can and should regulate the marketing of firearms, and I would dare say that anything that would indicate a firearm is appropriate for children should be prohibited.

[garbon]

One of the ways to see that the demand is not met is to cut the supply.

Nanny state.

To my mind, a gun user ought to be licenced in the same way as a car driver, and for the same reason - public safety.

I dont disagree with that. People should be licensed to parent kids too.

Not really feasible and certainly wouldn't be beneficial to society.