Joe the Plumber runs for congress

[Sheilbh]

Yeah.  The myth that it takes lawyers to pass good laws is pretty much disproven by the fact that something like half the Senators and a third of the Congressmen are lawyers.  I think the country needs more people who know how to create policies and less people who know how to read contracts.

We've government by policy wonk.  It's not much better.

[The Brain]

Swedish lawmakers are too cool for school.

[The Brain]

Does Congress grant leaves of absence btw? The Swedish parliament does. I find it absurd.

[Maximus]

I don't think profession is the reason.  In my personal experience, lawyers are actually extremely intelligent, and able to comprehend issues far outside of their assumed level of expertise. 

I think the problem is with the system, like most corruption problems.  If you give people enough incentives to act unethically, they will.  You can blame their personal shortcomings all you want, but if you want to change the way things are done, you need to change the system.

I think a big part of the problem is the concept of a career in politics. It's probably unavoidable to some extent but it's too prevalent IMO and a law degree is seen by many as a first step in that direction. It's not that lawyers can't be good lawmakers- they are as qualified as anyone- it's that too many become lawyers for the sole purpose of becoming lawmakers.

[Viking]

Then the is the other issue, the attitude gained through education. The most important thing I learned at University was how to think like an engineer. The system of mental instruments, rules of thumb and attitudes that make a good engineer. I think lawyers have their own mental instruments, rules of thumb and attitudes. Not to blame the people who got law degrees, but a room full of lawyers can make a monstrous mistake that an engineer, scientist or economist will not miss. The adversarial nature of common law also results in analysis boiling down to who makes the better case and the kneejerk instinct to opposed whatever the other side proposes.

[The Minsky Moment]

There are a lot of people in Congress with law degrees, but only a fraction of those ever really practiced law.

These days, a lot of what Congress does is make enactments that set out principles, guidelines and basic definitions and concepts -- but the nitty-gritty of enacting the rules that actually regulate conduct is left to administrative agencies and the "interpretations" of the courts.  And even with respect to what Congress does do, a lot of the drafting and rewriting has to be delegated to committee staff (and lobbyists and "consultants")

[Viking]

There are a lot of people in Congress with law degrees, but only a fraction of those ever really practiced law.

These days, a lot of what Congress does is make enactments that set out principles, guidelines and basic definitions and concepts -- but the nitty-gritty of enacting the rules that actually regulate conduct is left to administrative agencies and the "interpretations" of the courts.  And even with respect to what Congress does do, a lot of the drafting and rewriting has to be delegated to committee staff (and lobbyists and "consultants")

This, if anything, is an argument for professional political parties in the US.

[Zanza]

What is a professional political party?

[Richard Hakluyt]

The House of Commons used to include many former manual workers in its ranks and was a more respected place than it is today. The move towards a monoculture of Oxbridge-educated professional politicos is a grave problem imo. We have professional officials to attend to the technically difficult details, the politicians should represent the people.

Of course Joe the plumber, whoever he is, could easily be the wrong plumber to elect to Congress; but I don't see why the place would not benefit from having the viewpoints of people from the humbler sectors of society more immediately accessible.

[grumbler]

The House of Commons used to include many former manual workers in its ranks and was a more respected place than it is today. The move towards a monoculture of Oxbridge-educated professional politicos is a grave problem imo. We have professional officials to attend to the technically difficult details, the politicians should represent the people.

Of course Joe the plumber, whoever he is, could easily be the wrong plumber to elect to Congress; but I don't see why the place would not benefit from having the viewpoints of people from the humbler sectors of society more immediately accessible.

In the US, Congress has always had its share of lawyers, but I agree that it had more cred and approval when it was more representative. 

[Martinus]

Actually, I was about to start a thread about a similar topic. The current Polish parliament has 150 (out of 460) new MPs, some of them being small business owners, manual artisans/workers and other people who do not have degrees in law, politiology, sociology or similar politically-oriented studies - and there is an implied tendency among commentators to regard such people as inferior parliament members.

Do you think this is justified?

[Martinus]

The random nature of his "celebrity".

So it would be much better if he was an idiot with a non-random status based on family money, like Bush the younger?

[Martinus]

Actually, it's nice to have lawmakers who actually understand the laws they are writing and voting on.   Believe it or not, there is some skill and knowledge required to be a useful lawmaker.  The budget ceiling fight was a good example of Congressmen who didn't know what they were doing.

I think that's a common misunderstanding. People who draft new legislation need to know legal drafting. People who vote on it do not - they are supposed to vote in favour of concepts and policies, not engage in minutiae of drafting legal clauses.

At the same time, lawyers (as any other group) tend to have a rather specific, distorted view of reality - so it's better to have a parliament that represents more diverse walks of life.

[Martinus]

They are over-represented in congress. Ex-Mennonites probably are not.

Yeah.  The myth that it takes lawyers to pass good laws is pretty much disproven by the fact that something like half the Senators and a third of the Congressmen are lawyers.  I think the country needs more people who know how to create policies and less people who know how to read contracts.

Shit. I posted something that's almost word-for-word like grumbler's post. I feel dirty. 

[Neil]

The House of Commons used to include many former manual workers in its ranks and was a more respected place than it is today.

On the other hand, it was even more respected before Labour got in there.