Putin Plots to restore Soviet Union

[Ideologue]

Fuck that.  Let Europe handle its own problems.  They're the man now, after all.

[Jaron]

Hmm..Twilight Struggle II mayhaps?

[Tonitrus]

I wonder if Putin is bold enough to bring some states in by force.  He knows he can't get the Baltic states, but getting Ukraine (or at least the ethnic Russian half), might be difficult with out armed intervention.  I can easily see him invade Belarus if the country looks like it's going to collapse and possibly Ukraine in the name of protecting ethnic Russians.  2008 showed that he is not shy about using military force against a sovereign country.

The current Ukrainian government is already Russia-friendly.  Heck, one of the leaders (and a hott MILF) of the previous government is soon to be/already a political prisoner.

And if they haven't reunified with Belarus yet, Ukraine is an even longer shot.

As for Georgia, they already own a couple client states inside their borders, and Armenia still has Russian bases (hoping for a long shot at help at taking Nagorno-Karabakh).

[Razgovory]

I wonder if Putin is bold enough to bring some states in by force.  He knows he can't get the Baltic states, but getting Ukraine (or at least the ethnic Russian half), might be difficult with out armed intervention.  I can easily see him invade Belarus if the country looks like it's going to collapse and possibly Ukraine in the name of protecting ethnic Russians.  2008 showed that he is not shy about using military force against a sovereign country.

The current Ukrainian government is already Russia-friendly.  Heck, one of the leaders (and a hott MILF) of the previous government is soon to be/already a political prisoner.

And if they haven't reunified with Belarus yet, Ukraine is an even longer shot.

As for Georgia, they already own a couple client states inside their borders, and Armenia still has Russian bases (hoping for a long shot at help at taking Nagorno-Karabakh).

Putin is unhappy with current Ukrainian government.  They are to independent.  He accused them of helping Georgia back in 2008.  Some of those released cables have Putin threatening Ukraine's territorial integrity.

http://www.kyivpost.com/news/nation/detail/91772/

The United States believed that comments by former Russian President Vladimir Putin challenging Ukraine's sovereignty were "cause for greater concern" after Russia invaded Georgia.

The concerns were raised in a leaked cable written by Kurt Volker, U.S. ambassador to NATO, and published on the website of Russian magazine Russian Reporter on Nov. 30. The message is undated, but the contents place it around August 2008.

The cable seems to confirm the widely reported scolding about Ukraine that Putin gave then-U.S. President George Bush, who pushed Ukraine's membership ambitions despite strong Russian opposition: "Do you understand, George, that Ukraine is not even a state," Putin allegedly told Bush then during a heated exchange.

At the April 4, 2008, NATO-Russia Council Summit in Bucharest, the cable reads: Putin "implicitly challenged the territorial integrity of Ukraine, suggesting that Ukraine was an artificial creation sewn together from territory of Poland, the Czech Republic, Romania, and especially Russia in the aftermath of the Second World War. He stated, 'the Crimea was simply given to Ukraine by a decision of the Politburo of the Soviet Communist Party Central Committee. There haven't even been any state procedures regarding transfer of the territory, since we take a very calm and responsible approach to the problem.' Putin claimed that 90 percent of inhabitants of the Crimea are Russian, 17 out of 45 million Ukrainian citizens are Russian, and that Ukraine gained enormous amounts of its territory from the east and south at the expense of Russia. He added, 'if we add in the NATO question and other problems, the very existence of the state could find itself under threat.'"

Volker added that Putin's comments "take on profound new meaning in light of Russian military actions in Georgia. 4. ... NATO needs to be mindful of the connective tissue between events in Georgia, Putin's threatening language on the territorial integrity of its neighbors, and Ukraine's (and Georgia's) MAP [Membership Action Plan] aspirations."

Ukraine and Georgia had been denied a Membership Action Plan at NATO's summit in Bucharest in April 2008, but were told that they "will become members."

Volker discusses the split between NATO allies over why Russia acted in Georgia: "The German-led allies argue that the Bucharest decision on eventual membership provoked the Russian aggression, while most others (including the new members and Canada) see it as we do: that Russia interpreted the denial of MAP [Membership Action Plan] as a green light for action against Georgia."

Read more: http://www.kyivpost.com/news/nation/detail/91772/#ixzz1ZypY0j8N

I don't want to sound like a Timmay type alarmist, but Russia waging aggressive war in Europe is not out of the question.

[Tonitrus]

Those are from 2008.  The current Ukrainian government was just elected last year.

The current government has backed off on joining NATO, and signed agreements extending the lease for the Black Sea Fleet on the Crimea for quite some time (in exchange for a discount on natural gas).

[Tonitrus]

I don't want to sound like a Timmay type alarmist, but Russia waging aggressive war in Europe is not out of the question.

Russia is also not really capable of fighting an effective war of aggression anyway (well, maybe as well as any other European country). 

Their primary weapon against Western Europe and their other neighbors is natural gas.

[Razgovory]

He said that he did not regard Ukraine as a real country.  I don't think that opinion will change because a more friendly government is in power now.  From what I heard he doesn't like the new government that well either.  Yanukovych is trying to avoid leaning to far East or West.  This displeases Putin.

[Razgovory]

I don't want to sound like a Timmay type alarmist, but Russia waging aggressive war in Europe is not out of the question.

Russia is also not really capable of fighting an effective war of aggression anyway (well, maybe as well as any other European country). 

Their primary weapon against Western Europe and their other neighbors is natural gas.

And this is based on... what?

[Martinus]

Fuck that.  Let Europe handle its own problems.  They're the man now, after all.

Pro-Soviet proles like you are a good reason why people born into the lower class shouldn't be allowed to vote.

[Razgovory]

Fuck that.  Let Europe handle its own problems.  They're the man now, after all.

Pro-Soviet proles like you are a good reason why people born into the lower class shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Aren't you a pro-soviet prole?

[Lettow77]

 I thought Martinus hated Poland but also managed to hate the Soviets.

And Christianity of course. I think he has a long list with considerable overlap. In any event, I do suspect Putin might try to pull some beachy things with Ukraine in the near future, yeah.

If I was Ukraine i'd collaborate to ensure he'd use lube this time.

The time has come for Japan to reclaim karafuto and the kurils.

[Zoupa]

suggesting that Ukraine was an artificial creation sewn together from territory of Poland, the Czech Republic, Romania, and especially Russia in the aftermath of the Second World War. He stated, 'the Crimea was simply given to Ukraine by a decision of the Politburo of the Soviet Communist Party Central Committee. There haven't even been any state procedures regarding transfer of the territory, since we take a very calm and responsible approach to the problem.' Putin claimed that 90 percent of inhabitants of the Crimea are Russian, 17 out of 45 million Ukrainian citizens are Russian, and that Ukraine gained enormous amounts of its territory from the east and south at the expense of Russia.

That's pretty accurate though.

[Martinus]

I thought Martinus hated Poland but also managed to hate the Soviets.

And Christianity of course. I think he has a long list with considerable overlap. In any event, I do suspect Putin might try to pull some beachy things with Ukraine in the near future, yeah.

If I was Ukraine i'd collaborate to ensure he'd use lube this time.

The time has come for Japan to reclaim karafuto and the kurils.

I like French Englightenment and detest all her enemies.

[Valmy]

I like French Englightenment and detest all her enemies.

[Valmy]

How would a block of poor, weak nations become a major global player?

Europe and America are bankrupt.

Reports of our demise have been greatly exaggerated...especially by Russians.