When the Ottoman flag flew over part of Britain ...

[Valmy]

Apparently, recent research indicates his father left him a considerable wealth, far beyond low nobility. He went to court very young to serve as the prince's page as well.

Darn Dark Ages are so hard to penetrate.

In any case lots of people made their way taking lands from Moors...and losing them again...

[Siege]

That tv show spartacus makes want to reinstate slavery.
Why did slavery disappear?
I mean, the abolicionist movement would have needed some powerhitters behind to convince people to give up their sex slaves.

[crazy canuck]

That depended largely on the time and place.

Yeah the marchlands (like that one place where the Muslims and Christians were always trading lands...) were a great place for nobodies to become lords.

El Cid comes to mind

He was born in the nobility.

You are thinking of the El Cid of legend not the real man.

Apparently, recent research indicates his father left him a considerable wealth, far beyond low nobility. He went to court very young to serve as the prince's page as well.

I would be interested in reading that.  One wonders why he became a mercenary of sorts if he could have simply lived the life of the idle rich.

[Razgovory]

Which is why I said if we were counting them, then I could count Roman slavery, which was also not chattel slavery as practiced in, say, the American south.

Well it certainly could be.  If you were working on a large estate as a field hand or (God help you) in the mines the conditions to the American South were pretty similar.  But there were many better jobs slaves could have.

I wonder if that was the same for the Muslims.  Did they use slaves in dangerous mining work?  What did most of their slaves do?  I mean besides the famous galley slaves that every Med power used.

I think the Muslim liked to rape their slaves more.  So they wanted more female slaves.  Something like 20% of Iraqis are descended from African slaves so they probably made them do menial labor.  It's thought that some Sheiks and Emirs in the Arab world still buy slaves.  It's a bit ironic that when Malcolm X was out fantasizing about Islam being the black man's religion, the Muslims were still importing Africans.

[Siege]

That depended largely on the time and place.

Yeah the marchlands (like that one place where the Muslims and Christians were always trading lands...) were a great place for nobodies to become lords.

El Cid comes to mind

He was born in the nobility.

You are thinking of the El Cid of legend not the real man.

Apparently, recent research indicates his father left him a considerable wealth, far beyond low nobility. He went to court very young to serve as the prince's page as well.

How do you say "space navy" in spanish, since the word "navy" in spanish comes from "sea", instead of coming from "navigation" as in english.

[Iormlund]

There were moments where being peasant was not that unpleasant and you could certainly become something else. For example, after the Black Death there was great scarcity of manpower, so lords had to be careful or lose their sources of income.

[Razgovory]

Still slaves.  I am aware of an East African slave trade.

Sure they were technically slaves but they were never bought or sold as a commodity so do not count in the Slave Trade.

Which is why I said if we were counting them, then I could count Roman slavery and probably serfdom in Russia, Hungary, etc.

I think some Russian serfs could be sold.

[Valmy]

I think some Russian serfs could be sold.

You could even sell dead ones according to Gogol.

[Iormlund]

How do you say "space navy" in spanish, since the word "navy" in spanish comes from "sea", instead of coming from "navigation" as in english.

I'm not quite sure how a discussing of the origins of El Cid prompted that one, but ...

A spaceship is a Nave espacial which I suppose has the same root as Navy. A fleet would be a flota and the service is actually called the Armada. So it would be the Armada Espacial, although I can't see way Marina Espacial wouldn't work. After all names can be quite silly. Nueva Cartagena for example means New-new-new-city.

[Valmy]

Nueva Cartagena for example means New-new-new-city.

I am most fond of Breedon on the Hill.

Bree = Hill in Celtic British
Dun = Hill in Old English/Anglo-Saxon

So Hill Hill on the Hill.  The people who lived there were really proud of their hill.

[Siege]

How do you say "space navy" in spanish, since the word "navy" in spanish comes from "sea", instead of coming from "navigation" as in english.

I'm not quite sure how a discussing of the origins of El Cid prompted that one, but ...

A spaceship is a Nave espacial which I suppose has the same root as Navy. A fleet would be a flota and the service is actually called the Armada. So it would be the Armada Espacial, although I can't see way Marina Espacial wouldn't work. After all names can be quite silly. Nueva Cartagena for example means New-new-new-city.

Thanks. That makes sense.
Armada Espacial sounds way cooler than Marina Espacial.

[Iormlund]

Nueva Cartagena for example means New-new-new-city.

I am most fond of Breedon on the Hill.

Bree = Hill in Celtic British
Dun = Hill in Old English/Anglo-Saxon

So Hill Hill on the Hill.  The people who lived there were really proud of their hill.

Reminds me of certain Hugh Grant film.

[edit] Also that I love Tolkien.

[PDH]

Nueva Cartagena for example means New-new-new-city.

They should have called it "New and Improved City."

[Razgovory]

I'm not quite sure how a discussing of the origins of El Cid prompted that one, but ...

A spaceship is a Nave espacial which I suppose has the same root as Navy. A fleet would be a flota and the service is actually called the Armada. So it would be the Armada Espacial, although I can't see way Marina Espacial wouldn't work. After all names can be quite silly. Nueva Cartagena for example means New-new-new-city.

I do kind of wonder why Siege asked that question.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Where would you beach a boat in that island?
I see no bays or ports.

Well spotted siege 

I have holidayed on that island and there is indeed no proper port. There is a partly sheltered bay, the ferry stops there and you have to land using a rowboat. You then walk up a cliffside path to get to the plateau above.