Bank of America To Charge $5 Monthly Fee For Debit Card Usage

[Jacob]

I don't disagree, and I doubt anyone else will.  Now if we can only get Jake to agree that voluntary organizations don't fit in the commonly accepted definition of socialism because they lack the coercive aspect then we can kick in the kumbaya.

No dice. Socialism is not solely concerned with the organisation of the state. A socialist farming collective or a socialist housing co-op or a socialist commune are not not-socialist because they lack the coercive powers of the state. And neither is a credit union not-socialist because it lacks the power of the state. Not being a totalitarian state is not enough proof to show that an organisation is not socialist.

[Siege]

Red Dawn

[Admiral Yi]

No dice. Socialism is not solely concerned with the organisation of the state. A socialist farming collective or a socialist housing co-op or a socialist commune are not not-socialist because they lack the coercive powers of the state. And neither is a credit union not-socialist because it lacks the power of the state. Not being a totalitarian state is not enough proof to show that an organisation is not socialist.

You're right, the coercion argument doesn't work.

The argument that does work I think is that credit unions are not socialist because they do not take the need of their members into account when distributing profits.

[grumbler]

The argument that does work I think is that credit unions are not socialist because they do not take the need of their members into account when distributing profits.

Not sure why the bolded bit is relevant. 

A better argument might be that credit unions don't produce for the benefit of the membership.  In other words, that their "production" decisions are based on market demands more than member demands.  That might be more "pure" than Jacob demands to meet the threshold of "socialist" though.  Certainly the argument that something is "impurely" socialist isn't the same as the argument that it isn't socialist at all.

An interesting example f a corporation like, but also unlike, a credit union is USAA.  Because I have my insurance with them, I can bank with them as well.  They are run largely by retired military types (elected by the membership on a one-person-one-vote basis), and only active and former military members can join.  The members are the owners, and all "profits" are distributed to the members.  Loans are available to members only.  Both the insurance company and its associated bank are top-rated.  To me, this seems largely a socialist setup.  All the decisions are nominally based on which options best serve the members.  "Profit"-making is not a significant factor - profit is a byproduct of the necessity to maintain enough cash reserves to pay the insurance obligations in a major outlay year, and when the year isn't a big outlay year the association distributes the excess.  Even the reserve pool, however, is owned by the members and not the association; that portion of the members' equity is just not liquid (though I would get it if I were to terminate my membership).

[Ideologue]

But I think if you do this the bridge will be gaped.

[MadImmortalMan]

...And they've decided to drop the $5 fee. Don't have a news story on it yet but hey.


My guess: They figured once they did it the others would too. But the others saw what happened to BAC and decided not to follow.

[HisMajestyBOB]

...And they've decided to drop the $5 fee. Don't have a news story on it yet but hey.


My guess: They figured once they did it the others would too. But the others saw what happened to BAC and decided not to follow.

The other banks' Boards of Directors were taught the lesson of "If BAC decided to jump off a cliff, would you do it too?" by their mothers.

[HVC]

That's odd. You'd figure by now anyone that would care enough to leave over the 5 dollar fee would be gone by now. Or are the hoping for a "New Coke" type of deal.

[fhdz]

That's odd. You'd figure by now anyone that would care enough to leave over the 5 dollar fee would be gone by now.

Unfortunately, I think you've grossly misjudged the ratio of the average American's ability to complain to the average American's level of laziness.

[Arvoreen]

...And they've decided to drop the $5 fee. Don't have a news story on it yet but hey.


My guess: They figured once they did it the others would too. But the others saw what happened to BAC and decided not to follow.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/11/01/141903688/bank-of-america-dropping-plan-for-5-monthly-debit-card-fee?ft=1&f=1001

[MadImmortalMan]

Now lookee here.

Bank Customers Flee to CUs
By Ed Roberts
NOV 3, 2011 10:40am EDT

WASHINGTON — An estimated 650,000 consumers have closed their bank accounts and opted for credit union membership over the past four weeks, according to CUNA, bringing the approach to Saturday's Bank Transfer Day to a crescendo.

In a survey of 5,000 of its credit union members CUNA estimates that at least 650,000 consumers across the nation have joined credit unions since Sept. 29, the day Bank of America unveiled its now-rescinded $5 monthly debit card fee. Also during that time, CUNA estimates that credit unions have added $4.5 billion in new savings accounts, likely from the new members and existing members shifting their funds.

The survey results also show that more than four in every five credit unions experiencing member growth since Sept. 29 attributed the growth to consumer reaction to new fees imposed by banks, or a combination of consumer reactions to the new bank fees plus the social media-inspired "Bank Transfer Day," Nov. 5.

"These results indicate that consumers are clearly making a smarter choice by moving to credit unions where, on average, they will save about $70 a year in fewer or no fees, lower rates on loans and higher return on savings." said CUNA President Bill Cheney.

Cheney said the growth is particularly noticeable at larger credit unions (those with $100 million or more in assets, which account for about 20% of all credit unions – but count about 80% of all credit union members). The CUNA survey shows that more than 70% of these credit unions reported they have seen growth in memberships and deposits since Sept. 29.

[Admiral Yi]

According to a Time blurb about banking fees, large US banks lose an average of $80 a year on checking accounts.

[Eddie Teach]

Unfortunately, I think you've grossly misjudged the ratio of the average American's ability to complain to the average American's level of laziness.

Thankfully, enough got off their butts and moved their accounts to credit unions that I don't have to. 

[Razgovory]

According to a Time blurb about banking fees, large US banks lose an average of $80 a year on checking accounts.

That doesn't sound like much.

[Admiral Yi]

According to a Time blurb about banking fees, large US banks lose an average of $80 a year on checking accounts.

That doesn't sound like much.

$80 per checking account.  Not $80 on all of them together.