Best Rogue's Gallery?

[Kleves]

My vote:

[Neil]

Well Batman is certainly a contender.  He has by far the strongest rogue's gallery in DC.  Villains like Catwoman, Ras Al-Ghul, Penguin, Riddler, Poison Ivy and Two-Face are all good characters that have received development and love from their storytellers, and the Joker is a fucking institution to a degree that only Lex Luthor or Magneto comes close to.

If somebody was going to beat Batman, it would have to be either Spiderman (Green Goblin, Electro, Rhino, Venom, Hobgoblin, Doctor Octopus, Kraven and Sandman) or the X-Men (Magneto, Apocalypse, Dark Phoenix, Mr. Sinister, Sabretooth, Mystique, the Sentinels, the Hellfire Club).  Green Lantern (Parallax, Sinestro, Star Sapphire, the Manhunters, the Qwardians, Dr. Polaris) and the Fantastic Four (Dr. Doom, Namor, Maximus, Psycho Man, Mole Man, the Wizard, the Mad Thinker) are probably a step down from there, and Captain America a step below that provided that you give him all the old Nazi groups, Stucker, Zemo and Red Skull.  Iron Man has an incredibly weak rogue's gallery in his own right (the Mandarin and a bunch of retards in armour), but he does alright as an Avenger.  Superman sucks in this regard because he's hard to challenge and you end up devaluing a character who should be a total monster of a world-beater like General Zod or Doomsday.  He's got Lex Luthor and then a bunch of scrubs.  Wonder Woman is pretty awful, because although Cheetah is kinda cool and Circe isn't bad, she's got a million goofs like the Silver Swan.

[Martinus]

Well Batman is certainly a contender.  He has by far the strongest rogue's gallery in DC.  Villains like Catwoman, Ras Al-Ghul, Penguin, Riddler, Poison Ivy and Two-Face are all good characters that have received development and love from their storytellers, and the Joker is a fucking institution to a degree that only Lex Luthor or Magneto comes close to.

If somebody was going to beat Batman, it would have to be either Spiderman (Green Goblin, Electro, Rhino, Venom, Hobgoblin, Doctor Octopus, Kraven and Sandman) or the X-Men (Magneto, Apocalypse, Dark Phoenix, Mr. Sinister, Sabretooth, Mystique, the Sentinels, the Hellfire Club).  Green Lantern (Parallax, Sinestro, Star Sapphire, the Manhunters, the Qwardians, Dr. Polaris) and the Fantastic Four (Dr. Doom, Namor, Maximus, Psycho Man, Mole Man, the Wizard, the Mad Thinker) are probably a step down from there, and Captain America a step below that provided that you give him all the old Nazi groups, Stucker, Zemo and Red Skull.  Iron Man has an incredibly weak rogue's gallery in his own right (the Mandarin and a bunch of retards in armour), but he does alright as an Avenger.  Superman sucks in this regard because he's hard to challenge and you end up devaluing a character who should be a total monster of a world-beater like General Zod or Doomsday.  He's got Lex Luthor and then a bunch of scrubs.  Wonder Woman is pretty awful, because although Cheetah is kinda cool and Circe isn't bad, she's got a million goofs like the Silver Swan.

[Viking]

X-Men, if only because the bad guys often aren't evil, only have severe differences of opinion with the good guys.

[Ideologue]

Neil's right about Wonder Woman's villains.  I mean, I like Giganta and Dr. Psycho alright, but they're all pretty B-list.  Maybe Ares, I guess.

The Flash has an outstanding rogue's gallery, from literal antithesis Eobard Thawne to a loser like Heatwave, who is basically an idiot with a flamethrower.  At the same time, they're often poorly handled, because Geoff Johns has pretty much defined the Flash for a decade and doesn't write very well.  He does a good Captain Cold, though, who's actually one of my favorite villains.

I'd actually probably say Superman.  He doesn't have enough really good enemies, but between Lex Luthor and Brainiac, he has the best; also, you can include Legion of Super-Heroes enemies if you want.  I also like the Cyborg, even if his origin is sort of lazy and he can come off as whiny and sometimes undermotivated.  Doomsday himself is also a really good antagonist, but truly could only be used effectively once, so all his appearances subsequent to The Death of Superman actually undermine the quality of Supes' rogues gallery.

The point is, though, that Lex Luthor is worth a thousand Jokers.  Luthor, especially after John Byrne redefined him, never really got old, and in a good writer's hands, like Grant Morrison or Paul Cornell, is endlessly entertaining; the Joker got old a long, long time ago, and even a good writer has trouble saving him from being boring (if not outright unbelievable, e.g. The Dark Knight).  Batman's villains suffer from almost unanimously having severe mental disorders, which tend to limit their personalities to pretty narrow confines.  The exception is Ra's and Talia, but they've been badly handled for years too.

However, if you cast the net on Batman's rogues gallery wide enough to include Catman and Deadshot, I guess he might win by technicality, at least in the DC universe.

I'd also like to mention Adam Warlock, though: if you've got Thanos and the Magus, I don't see how anyone could beat that.

[CountDeMoney]

Well Batman is certainly a contender.  He has by far the strongest rogue's gallery in DC.  Villains like Catwoman, Ras Al-Ghul, Penguin, Riddler, Poison Ivy and Two-Face are all good characters that have received development and love from their storytellers, and the Joker is a fucking institution to a degree that only Lex Luthor or Magneto comes close to.

If somebody was going to beat Batman, it would have to be either Spiderman (Green Goblin, Electro, Rhino, Venom, Hobgoblin, Doctor Octopus, Kraven and Sandman) or the X-Men (Magneto, Apocalypse, Dark Phoenix, Mr. Sinister, Sabretooth, Mystique, the Sentinels, the Hellfire Club).  Green Lantern (Parallax, Sinestro, Star Sapphire, the Manhunters, the Qwardians, Dr. Polaris) and the Fantastic Four (Dr. Doom, Namor, Maximus, Psycho Man, Mole Man, the Wizard, the Mad Thinker) are probably a step down from there, and Captain America a step below that provided that you give him all the old Nazi groups, Stucker, Zemo and Red Skull.  Iron Man has an incredibly weak rogue's gallery in his own right (the Mandarin and a bunch of retards in armour), but he does alright as an Avenger.  Superman sucks in this regard because he's hard to challenge and you end up devaluing a character who should be a total monster of a world-beater like General Zod or Doomsday.  He's got Lex Luthor and then a bunch of scrubs.  Wonder Woman is pretty awful, because although Cheetah is kinda cool and Circe isn't bad, she's got a million goofs like the Silver Swan.

No shit. Posts like these consistently reinforce the notion that Neil is, in reality, nothing more than Comic Book Store Guy from The Simpsons.

[Ideologue]

Well Batman is certainly a contender.  He has by far the strongest rogue's gallery in DC.  Villains like Catwoman, Ras Al-Ghul, Penguin, Riddler, Poison Ivy and Two-Face are all good characters that have received development and love from their storytellers, and the Joker is a fucking institution to a degree that only Lex Luthor or Magneto comes close to.

If somebody was going to beat Batman, it would have to be either Spiderman (Green Goblin, Electro, Rhino, Venom, Hobgoblin, Doctor Octopus, Kraven and Sandman) or the X-Men (Magneto, Apocalypse, Dark Phoenix, Mr. Sinister, Sabretooth, Mystique, the Sentinels, the Hellfire Club).  Green Lantern (Parallax, Sinestro, Star Sapphire, the Manhunters, the Qwardians, Dr. Polaris) and the Fantastic Four (Dr. Doom, Namor, Maximus, Psycho Man, Mole Man, the Wizard, the Mad Thinker) are probably a step down from there, and Captain America a step below that provided that you give him all the old Nazi groups, Stucker, Zemo and Red Skull.  Iron Man has an incredibly weak rogue's gallery in his own right (the Mandarin and a bunch of retards in armour), but he does alright as an Avenger.  Superman sucks in this regard because he's hard to challenge and you end up devaluing a character who should be a total monster of a world-beater like General Zod or Doomsday.  He's got Lex Luthor and then a bunch of scrubs.  Wonder Woman is pretty awful, because although Cheetah is kinda cool and Circe isn't bad, she's got a million goofs like the Silver Swan.

No shit. Posts like these consistently reinforce the notion that Neil is, in reality, nothing more than Comic Book Store Guy from The Simpsons.

Right.  Let's talk about the fucking seasons or appropriate dress codes at the opera.  Nothing's cooler than sitting in a dark room with old people watching Tristan und Isolde for five hours, and then discussing our feelings about autumn during the intermission while the life support system for our fetish keeps checking his watch and telling himself it's worth the money.

[CountDeMoney]

Right.  Let's talk about the fucking seasons or appropriate dress codes at the opera.  Nothing's cooler than sitting in a dark room with old people watching Tristan und Isolde for five hours, and then discussing our feelings about autumn during the intermission while the life support system for our fetish keeps checking his watch and telling himself it's worth the money.

But then it's art.  That's the difference.

[jimmy olsen]

I'd actually probably say Superman.  He doesn't have enough really good enemies, but between Lex Luthor and Brainiac, he has the best; also, you can include Legion of Super-Heroes enemies if you want.  I also like the Cyborg, even if his origin is sort of lazy and he can come off as whiny and sometimes undermotivated.  Doomsday himself is also a really good antagonist, but truly could only be used effectively once, so all his appearances subsequent to The Death of Superman actually undermine the quality of Supes' rogues gallery.

How can you not mention Darksied?

The point is, though, that Lex Luthor is worth a thousand Jokers.  Luthor, especially after John Byrne redefined him, never really got old, and in a good writer's hands, like Grant Morrison or Paul Cornell, is endlessly entertaining; the Joker got old a long, long time ago, and even a good writer has trouble saving him from being boring (if not outright unbelievable, e.g. The Dark Knight). 

I completely disagree, the Joker is far more interesting than Luthor, and I voted for Batman because of him.

[Neil]

I'd also like to mention Adam Warlock, though: if you've got Thanos and the Magus, I don't see how anyone could beat that.

Silver Surfer's pretty good too.  I like the Elders of the Universe and the other heralds, but Thanos and Galactus are an awesome one-two punch.

I'll give you a little bit of credit on Superman's gallery, as Brainiac is a good villain and Darkseid is generally impressive, but I don't think that it's on the same level as the top tier, and all of his villains require very careful usage to avoid becoming humdrum, even moreso than other characters.  Luthor the anti-Superman industrialist is much, much better than the old Luthor the archcriminal, I'll give you that.  At the same time, I don't think he has the gravitas and compelling origin of Magneto, nor the same cultural resonance of the Joker.

We don't really see much of the Joker these days, do we?  The last time I remember seeing him was when he was in Total Monster mode in Birds of Prey.  Then again, I don't read a lot of DC right now, since they've decided to suck for the next couple of years.

[Neil]

How can you not mention Darksied?

It could be because he considers him to be more of a New Gods enemy than a Superman enemy.

And no, I would never consider the Legion villains to also be Superman villains, just because to me the Legion was something greater than Superman, and Superman was just passing through.

[Neil]

No shit. Posts like these consistently reinforce the notion that Neil is, in reality, nothing more than Comic Book Store Guy from The Simpsons.

Great.  You and Martinus can get together and talk about what flavour of cock you like best and you can teach him how not to play wargames.

Fag.

[CountDeMoney]

No shit. Posts like these consistently reinforce the notion that Neil is, in reality, nothing more than Comic Book Store Guy from The Simpsons.

Great.  You and Martinus can get together and talk about what flavour of cock you like best and you can teach him how not to play wargames.

Fag.

Do you have enough tacos to provide adequate sustanance for the Dr Who marathon?

[The Brain]

I have to side with CdM here.

[Neil]

No shit. Posts like these consistently reinforce the notion that Neil is, in reality, nothing more than Comic Book Store Guy from The Simpsons.

Great.  You and Martinus can get together and talk about what flavour of cock you like best and you can teach him how not to play wargames.

Fag.

Do you have enough tacos to provide adequate sustanance for the Dr Who marathon?

Tacos?  This is Alberta.  We don't truck with your filthy Tim-food.