Is our generation capable of pathos without auto-irony?

[Martinus]

Well, that's how my mind works, sorry.

When I read PDH's story, my line of thought went a bit like this:

1. Gee, that's a cool, moving story.
2. It would be moving to be in a situation like this.
3. I wonder if the people involved would act the same way if one of the participants and/or the dead person was openly gay.
4. 
5. 

I can't help it.

At least make an effort. My existence is really gayer than yours and you don't see me inserting sexuality nearly as much as you do.

I can't help it. I think I got cynical like that when I read accounts of nazi death camps and Franco's camps for the "political undesirables" and found out that other prisoners actually ganged up on the ones who got there for being gay/effeminate. If that kind of situation did not make people feel the sense of fellowship with the gay ones, then likely any "human bonding" situation that happened 20+ years ago would take exception at gays and treat them as outsiders.

Being gay you should know there is always a bottom ( ), people will always ostracize a minority. Go into the arts if you want to see gays decimate against others.

Not sure how this contradicts anything I said.

[garbon]

Being gay you should know there is always a bottom ( )

I think Marti tries to avoid that, whenever possible.

[Martinus]

I can't help it. I think I got cynical like that when I read accounts of nazi death camps and Franco's camps for the "political undesirables" and found out that other prisoners actually ganged up on the ones who got there for being gay/effeminate. If that kind of situation did not make people feel the sense of fellowship with the gay ones, then likely any "human bonding" situation that happened 20+ years ago would take exception at gays and treat them as outsiders.

Cop out.  I've read similarly things and yet I keep the rainbow rage in check.  Besides doesn't it get tiring to always whine about the negative side to homosexuality? I'd rather focus on the positive.

HIV?

[HVC]

HIV?

Look on the bright side. Snsures one never grows old, which is the true scurge and fear of the gay man.



... too far

[HVC]

Not sure how this contradicts anything I said.

True enough . I'm just saying you self-identification with all things gay makes you sensitive. You look at any situation and where there is no negative aspect you create one by taking your own prejudices and superimposing the worse possible outcome on a situation.

It isn't healthy to see the worst in every situation. I'm as cynical as the next guy, but sometimes you just have to see a sunny day for what it is and not try to squint to force yourself to see the clouds.

[garbon]

I can't help it. I think I got cynical like that when I read accounts of nazi death camps and Franco's camps for the "political undesirables" and found out that other prisoners actually ganged up on the ones who got there for being gay/effeminate. If that kind of situation did not make people feel the sense of fellowship with the gay ones, then likely any "human bonding" situation that happened 20+ years ago would take exception at gays and treat them as outsiders.

Cop out.  I've read similarly things and yet I keep the rainbow rage in check.  Besides doesn't it get tiring to always whine about the negative side to homosexuality? I'd rather focus on the positive.

HIV?

There you go focusing on the negative again.

[garbon]

HIV?

Look on the bright side. Snsures one never grows old, which is the true scurge and fear of the gay man.



... too far

Patently false. There are tons of old gits kicking around with HIV.

[garbon]

It isn't healthy to see the worst in every situation. I'm as cynical as the next guy, but sometimes you just have to see a sunny day for what it is and not try to squint to force yourself to see the clouds.

Agreed.

[Valmy]

Oddly enough, I would suggest finding a spectator sport you like, and going and cheering with a like group of people - there is nothing closer to that ritual moment of people all leveled then during a positive emotive moment of such an event.  Also, it is easier to not suffer the pangs of irony.

It is really ridiculous how powerful emotions are while being a fan of a team.  I am almost happier when some dude I do not know does something in a ridiculous game than I am when I achieve something.  I mean how amazing is that?  Sport fandom is like crack.

I never ever got that. I have always found that utterly ridiculous and totally alien to me. Maybe I just don't get this.

There is nothing to get dude.  It is just an experience.  There is no logical reason I should feel that way.  But that is true for virtually all of human experience.

[The Brain]

NIMKZ is perfectly natural.

What does it mean?

Not In My Concentration Camp

[Ed Anger]

I understood Marty's post better than I did Peedy's.

There is too much thinking going on here.

[Grallon]

There is nothing to get dude.  It is just an experience.  There is no logical reason I should feel that way.  But that is true for virtually all of human experience.

They say the same thing about music concerts, some powerful plays, religious rituals of course or political rallies; that the emotions of each individual are subsumed into something greater that uplifts or crushes the participants.  Personally I've always been very leery about these... displays/expressions of unbriddled emotions.  As for there being no logical reasons - or course there are.  One only need to practice detachment.




G.

[Valmy]

One only need to practice detachment.

Of course I could.  But why would I want to?  I actively seek it out.  It is a thrill.

[garbon]

As for there being no logical reasons - or course there are.  One only need to practice detachment.

G.

I'm not sure how stating that there are methods one can use to avoid feeling certain emotions can be used to see that there are logical reasons that one feels such overwhelming emotions.  Unless of course the logical reason is that the individual has yet to develop methods to overcome said emotions.

[Grallon]

One only need to practice detachment.

Of course I could.  But why would I want to?  I actively seek it out.  It is a thrill.

Good on you.  And this partially answers Marty's original question.  One's attitude towards collective rituals is rooted as much in an individual's temperament as it can be in surrounding social mores or be generated by the rituals themselves.



G.