Turkey promises to escort aid ships to Gaza

[HisMajestyBOB]

What's Turkey's end-game anyway?  It seems obvious to me that it is trying to use any excuse to worsen the ties with Israel.  Is the end goal to make Turkey hostile to Israel, or is it to go further and provoke a war with Israel?

It'd be for the best if there was war. The whole region was better off under Turkish control.

[Tamas]

Well I think this will reveal if Turkey is just doing some standard anti-semite posturing, or means business in his bid of leading the moontribes.

But right now, it is the Turks who face a decision, not the Jews. If the convoy enters their part of the sea (unless of course they can reach Gaza in an international territory - I have no idea of the imaginary lines on the sea), they must enforce the blockade, or it stops being a blockade, they will be found weak, and the very people who support this "peaceful" convoy will make sure to point that fact out.

The challenge of a foreign warship can only make them more determined to stop them, not less, unless they are cowards, which the Israelis are not.

[Tamas]

What's Turkey's end-game anyway?  It seems obvious to me that it is trying to use any excuse to worsen the ties with Israel.  Is the end goal to make Turkey hostile to Israel, or is it to go further and provoke a war with Israel?

It'd be for the best if there was war. The whole region was better off under Turkish control.

Yeah but you can't redraw major borders anymore.

That ended with the World Wars. It's ironic though that before deciding it's bad manners to redraw the maps, they quickly fucked up world borders.

[Viking]

Well I think this will reveal if Turkey is just doing some standard anti-semite posturing, or means business in his bid of leading the moontribes.

But right now, it is the Turks who face a decision, not the Jews. If the convoy enters their part of the sea (unless of course they can reach Gaza in an international territory - I have no idea of the imaginary lines on the sea), they must enforce the blockade, or it stops being a blockade, they will be found weak, and the very people who support this "peaceful" convoy will make sure to point that fact out.

The challenge of a foreign warship can only make them more determined to stop them, not less, unless they are cowards, which the Israelis are not.

The Israelis are enforcing a high seas blockade against Gaza. They are intercepting ships on the high seas that they suspect to be running the blockade. Gaza territorial waters are irrelevant.

[Richard Hakluyt]

What's Turkey's end-game anyway?  It seems obvious to me that it is trying to use any excuse to worsen the ties with Israel.  Is the end goal to make Turkey hostile to Israel, or is it to go further and provoke a war with Israel?

It'd be for the best if there was war. The whole region was better off under Turkish control.

Yeah but you can't redraw major borders anymore.

That ended with the World Wars. It's ironic though that before deciding it's bad manners to redraw the maps, they quickly fucked up world borders.

Hmmm....... pretty big redraw c. 1991 Tamas 

[Tamas]

What's Turkey's end-game anyway?  It seems obvious to me that it is trying to use any excuse to worsen the ties with Israel.  Is the end goal to make Turkey hostile to Israel, or is it to go further and provoke a war with Israel?

It'd be for the best if there was war. The whole region was better off under Turkish control.

Yeah but you can't redraw major borders anymore.

That ended with the World Wars. It's ironic though that before deciding it's bad manners to redraw the maps, they quickly fucked up world borders.

Hmmm....... pretty big redraw c. 1991 Tamas 

That was more like a disintegration, but yeah. Still, that doesn't convince me about Turkish chances of major territorial gains without the world going bust in the process.

[Tamas]

Well I think this will reveal if Turkey is just doing some standard anti-semite posturing, or means business in his bid of leading the moontribes.

But right now, it is the Turks who face a decision, not the Jews. If the convoy enters their part of the sea (unless of course they can reach Gaza in an international territory - I have no idea of the imaginary lines on the sea), they must enforce the blockade, or it stops being a blockade, they will be found weak, and the very people who support this "peaceful" convoy will make sure to point that fact out.

The challenge of a foreign warship can only make them more determined to stop them, not less, unless they are cowards, which the Israelis are not.

The Israelis are enforcing a high seas blockade against Gaza. They are intercepting ships on the high seas that they suspect to be running the blockade. Gaza territorial waters are irrelevant.

I hope CNN will have some choppers nearby then. Altough I am hoping a Jewish sub will just sink the Turkish warship(s), making it all the more humbling for the Turks.

[Viking]

Well I think this will reveal if Turkey is just doing some standard anti-semite posturing, or means business in his bid of leading the moontribes.

But right now, it is the Turks who face a decision, not the Jews. If the convoy enters their part of the sea (unless of course they can reach Gaza in an international territory - I have no idea of the imaginary lines on the sea), they must enforce the blockade, or it stops being a blockade, they will be found weak, and the very people who support this "peaceful" convoy will make sure to point that fact out.

The challenge of a foreign warship can only make them more determined to stop them, not less, unless they are cowards, which the Israelis are not.

The Israelis are enforcing a high seas blockade against Gaza. They are intercepting ships on the high seas that they suspect to be running the blockade. Gaza territorial waters are irrelevant.

I hope CNN will have some choppers nearby then. Altough I am hoping a Jewish sub will just sink the Turkish warship(s), making it all the more humbling for the Turks.

I'm hoping that no violence happens. I think, however, that if Turkey does escort the convoy Israel will just let the convoy through. They can then use the failure of the convoy in addition to FATAH's abandonment of the Oslo accords (by applying for UN membership and declaration of independence) might just be the CB Israel uses to re-occupy the west bank and gaza. But I don't think that either. Israel is basically being backed up into a corner. Israel will presumably react with quite a bit of force and quite a bit of re-evaluation of the principle of peace with arabs itself.

What's Israel going to do, start a war with Turkey over convoys?, start a war with Egypt over its abrogation of the Camp David Accords?, start a war with FATAH over it abrogation of the Oslo Accords?

Has Israel lost it's deterrence?

[11B4V]

I'll laugh my ass off when the  play hardball with the Turks.

[Tamas]

Well I think this will reveal if Turkey is just doing some standard anti-semite posturing, or means business in his bid of leading the moontribes.

But right now, it is the Turks who face a decision, not the Jews. If the convoy enters their part of the sea (unless of course they can reach Gaza in an international territory - I have no idea of the imaginary lines on the sea), they must enforce the blockade, or it stops being a blockade, they will be found weak, and the very people who support this "peaceful" convoy will make sure to point that fact out.

The challenge of a foreign warship can only make them more determined to stop them, not less, unless they are cowards, which the Israelis are not.

The Israelis are enforcing a high seas blockade against Gaza. They are intercepting ships on the high seas that they suspect to be running the blockade. Gaza territorial waters are irrelevant.

I hope CNN will have some choppers nearby then. Altough I am hoping a Jewish sub will just sink the Turkish warship(s), making it all the more humbling for the Turks.

I'm hoping that no violence happens. I think, however, that if Turkey does escort the convoy Israel will just let the convoy through. They can then use the failure of the convoy in addition to FATAH's abandonment of the Oslo accords (by applying for UN membership and declaration of independence) might just be the CB Israel uses to re-occupy the west bank and gaza. But I don't think that either. Israel is basically being backed up into a corner. Israel will presumably react with quite a bit of force and quite a bit of re-evaluation of the principle of peace with arabs itself.

What's Israel going to do, start a war with Turkey over convoys?, start a war with Egypt over its abrogation of the Camp David Accords?, start a war with FATAH over it abrogation of the Oslo Accords?

Has Israel lost it's deterrence?

yeah, talking seriously, I am a bit worried. Too many regional players could use a holy war there, what's with the arab spring, iranian regime stil having problems, and pseudo-islamist Erdogan being the regular dangerous populist prick.

[Admiral Yi]

I'm hoping that no violence happens. I think, however, that if Turkey does escort the convoy Israel will just let the convoy through. They can then use the failure of the convoy in addition to FATAH's abandonment of the Oslo accords (by applying for UN membership and declaration of independence) might just be the CB Israel uses to re-occupy the west bank and gaza. But I don't think that either. Israel is basically being backed up into a corner. Israel will presumably react with quite a bit of force and quite a bit of re-evaluation of the principle of peace with arabs itself.

What's Israel going to do, start a war with Turkey over convoys?, start a war with Egypt over its abrogation of the Camp David Accords?, start a war with FATAH over it abrogation of the Oslo Accords?

Has Israel lost it's deterrence?

Did the Oslo accords really say Palestine couldn't pursue recognition?

And what do you mean by Egypt's abrogation of Camp David?

[Sheilbh]

Did the Oslo accords really say Palestine couldn't pursue recognition?

Oslo provided a system of government and a structure for negotiations that would lead to a two state solution.  A unilateral declaration of independence or seeking of international recognition more or less fucks that up.

[Razgovory]

It's a slick move. Now that Turkey hates Israel all the antisemite Euroweenies will start sucking Turkish cock and support their bid to join the EU.

I don't think that's the strategy, it's merely the result of the "Europeanization" of Turkey.

[Viking]

I'm hoping that no violence happens. I think, however, that if Turkey does escort the convoy Israel will just let the convoy through. They can then use the failure of the convoy in addition to FATAH's abandonment of the Oslo accords (by applying for UN membership and declaration of independence) might just be the CB Israel uses to re-occupy the west bank and gaza. But I don't think that either. Israel is basically being backed up into a corner. Israel will presumably react with quite a bit of force and quite a bit of re-evaluation of the principle of peace with arabs itself.

What's Israel going to do, start a war with Turkey over convoys?, start a war with Egypt over its abrogation of the Camp David Accords?, start a war with FATAH over it abrogation of the Oslo Accords?

Has Israel lost it's deterrence?

Did the Oslo accords really say Palestine couldn't pursue recognition?

And what do you mean by Egypt's abrogation of Camp David?

I'm not referring to things that have happened, but things that are being advocated by strong forces in Egypt and Palestine.

[Grallon]

Wouldn't it be lovely to see the Semites go at each others throats on our plasma screens?  No doubt Israel would prevail but I doubt it would be livable afterward.




G.