Silicon Valley billionaire funding creation of artificial libertarian islands

[Admiral Yi]

I was wondering the same thing as Marty.  Let's say they buy citizenship in the Cayman Islands or some other fake country.  Then they buy recognition of Oilrigistan from the Cayman Islands.  The US no longer has jurisdiction, no?

[The Minsky Moment]

I largely agree but can't they renounce their US citizenship?

You can only do it from a foreign consulate, not from a floating oil platform.  They could renounce before entering the oil platform but that would leave them stateless, which could prove extremely awkward if anyone decided they wanted to move off the platform back to civilization later. 

[Martinus]

I largely agree but can't they renounce their US citizenship?

You can only do it from a foreign consulate, not from a floating oil platform.  They could renounce before entering the oil platform but that would leave them stateless, which could prove extremely awkward if anyone decided they wanted to move off the platform back to civilization later.

Well, as Yi said there are plenty of pseudo-states willing to give them citizenship for a buck.

And also, considering they are batshit crazy to begin with, I assumed that the prospect of being stateless if this does go bust is not something that would worry them.

[crazy canuck]

I was wondering the same thing as Marty.  Let's say they buy citizenship in the Cayman Islands or some other fake country.  Then they buy recognition of Oilrigistan from the Cayman Islands.  The US no longer has jurisdiction, no?

They would not become recognized a nation state which is able to exert its own territorial boundaries and therefore the International Law of the Sea will still apply if they are outside the boundaries of a Nation State.

ie they cant escape the Man.

[alfred russel]

I largely agree but can't they renounce their US citizenship?

You can only do it from a foreign consulate, not from a floating oil platform.  They could renounce before entering the oil platform but that would leave them stateless, which could prove extremely awkward if anyone decided they wanted to move off the platform back to civilization later.

And without knowing all the ins and outs, there are all sorts of tax payments that trigger if you renounce your US citizenship with significant assets.

[Martinus]

I was wondering the same thing as Marty.  Let's say they buy citizenship in the Cayman Islands or some other fake country.  Then they buy recognition of Oilrigistan from the Cayman Islands.  The US no longer has jurisdiction, no?

They would not become recognized a nation state which is able to exert its own territorial boundaries and therefore the International Law of the Sea will still apply if they are outside the boundaries of a Nation State.

Would that mean they have to file taxes in the US? 

[Martinus]

I largely agree but can't they renounce their US citizenship?

You can only do it from a foreign consulate, not from a floating oil platform.  They could renounce before entering the oil platform but that would leave them stateless, which could prove extremely awkward if anyone decided they wanted to move off the platform back to civilization later.

And without knowing all the ins and outs, there are all sorts of tax payments that trigger if you renounce your US citizenship with significant assets.

Well, the guy is a billionaire. An assumption is that he can hire good tax lawyers.

[alfred russel]

I was wondering the same thing as Marty.  Let's say they buy citizenship in the Cayman Islands or some other fake country.  Then they buy recognition of Oilrigistan from the Cayman Islands.  The US no longer has jurisdiction, no?

They would not become recognized a nation state which is able to exert its own territorial boundaries and therefore the International Law of the Sea will still apply if they are outside the boundaries of a Nation State.

Would that mean they have to file taxes in the US? 

Yes--all American citizens have to file taxes (if you have relevent income) regardless of where you live or what citizenship you pick up. I think some non citizens are supposed to as well.

[The Minsky Moment]

I was wondering the same thing as Marty.  Let's say they buy citizenship in the Cayman Islands or some other fake country.  Then they buy recognition of Oilrigistan from the Cayman Islands.  The US no longer has jurisdiction, no?

The tax havens are pretty lax about entry and work requirements as long as you have the resources, but citizenship is another story.  Caymans, e.g. requires 3-5 years.

Actually getting recognition from the Caymans would not be possible because the Caymans aren't an independent sovereign territory capable of granting recognition.

Even if all the hoops were jumped through, the US (and I assume many other countries as well) would still reserve the right to call inhabitants to account if their actions resulted in criminal consequences in the US (eg drug or weapons trafficking).  For example, the US applies its federal drug laws to any stateless (non-flagged) vessel carrying drugs.

[DontSayBanana]

I largely agree but can't they renounce their US citizenship?

Sure, provided they don't mind becoming stateless individuals.

[Martinus]

I was wondering the same thing as Marty.  Let's say they buy citizenship in the Cayman Islands or some other fake country.  Then they buy recognition of Oilrigistan from the Cayman Islands.  The US no longer has jurisdiction, no?

They would not become recognized a nation state which is able to exert its own territorial boundaries and therefore the International Law of the Sea will still apply if they are outside the boundaries of a Nation State.

Would that mean they have to file taxes in the US? 

Yes--all American citizens have to file taxes (if you have relevent income) regardless of where you live or what citizenship you pick up. I think some non citizens are supposed to as well.

I'm fairly certain that non-American citizens who do not live in the US probably do not have to. If they do, I'm screwed.

[alfred russel]

Well, the guy is a billionaire. An assumption is that he can hire good tax lawyers.

If he has figured out a way to renounce his US citizenship and still avoid US taxes, that is great for him, but that seems disconnected from living on an oil platform.

[Ed Anger]

I'll enjoy the footage of a SEAL team assraping them on their oil platform

[The Minsky Moment]

I'm fairly certain that non-American citizens who do not live in the US probably do not have to. If they do, I'm screwed.

yes - this is one of those ways in which the US is "special"

[Martinus]

For example, the US applies its federal drug laws to any stateless (non-flagged) vessel carrying drugs.

Even in international waters?