Spanish soccer pro quits sports in criticism of capitalism

[Barrister]

Theoretically technological innovation has to stop sometime.  I mean, it's based on a better understanding of natural laws and exploitation of those laws.  Eventually you are going to run out of natural laws to discover.  Presumably, one day all phenomenon in physics will be finally understood.  There has to be finite number of physical laws.  I suppose it's also possible some are not understandable by human minds, but that leaves us with the same result.

Theoretical physical limits are so far from where we are today it's really not helpful to mention, much as it's not helpful that the earth will be consumed by the sun when it becomes a red supergiant.  Yes, it's true, but it's so far away to be meaningless.

[Razgovory]

Theoretically technological innovation has to stop sometime.  I mean, it's based on a better understanding of natural laws and exploitation of those laws.  Eventually you are going to run out of natural laws to discover.  Presumably, one day all phenomenon in physics will be finally understood.  There has to be finite number of physical laws.  I suppose it's also possible some are not understandable by human minds, but that leaves us with the same result.

Theoretical physical limits are so far from where we are today it's really not helpful to mention, much as it's not helpful that the earth will be consumed by the sun when it becomes a red supergiant.  Yes, it's true, but it's so far away to be meaningless.

Really?  How do you know?  Physics could be a closed book for all we know a hundred years from now.  There is no way to know when that will occur.

[Barrister]

Theoretically technological innovation has to stop sometime.  I mean, it's based on a better understanding of natural laws and exploitation of those laws.  Eventually you are going to run out of natural laws to discover.  Presumably, one day all phenomenon in physics will be finally understood.  There has to be finite number of physical laws.  I suppose it's also possible some are not understandable by human minds, but that leaves us with the same result.

Theoretical physical limits are so far from where we are today it's really not helpful to mention, much as it's not helpful that the earth will be consumed by the sun when it becomes a red supergiant.  Yes, it's true, but it's so far away to be meaningless.

Really?  How do you know?  Physics could be a closed book for all we know a hundred years from now.  There is no way to know when that will occur.

Because we know a great deal about physics.  We know what a great many theoretical limits are.  We aren't particularily close to many of them.

[Ideologue]

Theoretically technological innovation has to stop sometime.  I mean, it's based on a better understanding of natural laws and exploitation of those laws.  Eventually you are going to run out of natural laws to discover.  Presumably, one day all phenomenon in physics will be finally understood.  There has to be finite number of physical laws.  I suppose it's also possible some are not understandable by human minds, but that leaves us with the same result.

Theoretical physical limits are so far from where we are today it's really not helpful to mention, much as it's not helpful that the earth will be consumed by the sun when it becomes a red supergiant.  Yes, it's true, but it's so far away to be meaningless.

Really?  How do you know?  Physics could be a closed book for all we know a hundred years from now.  There is no way to know when that will occur.

It's a bridge too far to assume that total physical knowledge means an end of progressively better application of that knowledge, and wider-spread application of that knowledge.

Further, are we talking purely about technological advance, or economic progress as originally?  The two are linked, but economic progress could continue without any further technological advance.

[Iormlund]

Iorm, I present to you an article from today's G&M entitled "Are High Oil Prices That Bad Really?":

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/economy-lab/daily-mix/are-high-oil-prices-that-bad-really/article2127627/

Let me reply with another link: http://www.npr.org/2011/08/02/138900885/libyan-rebels-wage-mad-max-war-in-the-mountains

[Barrister]

Iorm, I present to you an article from today's G&M entitled "Are High Oil Prices That Bad Really?":

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/economy-lab/daily-mix/are-high-oil-prices-that-bad-really/article2127627/

Let me reply with another link: http://www.npr.org/2011/08/02/138900885/libyan-rebels-wage-mad-max-war-in-the-mountains

Did you post the right link?  That one doesn't even mention the price of oil...

[Razgovory]

Because we know a great deal about physics.  We know what a great many theoretical limits are.  We aren't particularily close to many of them.

I suspect this would surprise those working on Grand Unified theories.

[Barrister]

Because we know a great deal about physics.  We know what a great many theoretical limits are.  We aren't particularily close to many of them.

I suspect this would surprise those working on Grand Unified theories.

Are you being obtuse?

We know a lot about, say, thermodynamics.  Those working on a Grand Unified theory are trying to determine how thermodynamics can be matched up with magnetism and gravity and other explainable phenomenon.
There's nothing to indicate that our knowledge of thermodynamics is wrong, just that we may not understand all of it's intricacies.

[Barrister]

Iorm, I present to you an article from today's G&M entitled "Are High Oil Prices That Bad Really?":

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/economy-lab/daily-mix/are-high-oil-prices-that-bad-really/article2127627/

Let me reply with another link: http://www.npr.org/2011/08/02/138900885/libyan-rebels-wage-mad-max-war-in-the-mountains

Did you post the right link?  That one doesn't even mention the price of oil...

Indeed the article itself doesn't use the word "oil" at all! 

[Iormlund]

Did you post the right link?  That one doesn't even mention the price of oil...

Maybe some arrows will do the trick: High fuel prices -> high food cost (via fertilizer, transportation etc) -> hunger -> uprisings -> Actual Mad Max.

[alfred russel]

'consistently' would be a better choice of words than 'consistent'.

If you took a chart of estimated per capita GDP from 4000BC to today you'd see a squiggly line that has plenty of noise year to year, but that generally has an overall steady increase over time (and a more rapid increase the last few hundred years).

The last few hundred would comprise the industrial revolution (if we can be somewhat generous regarding its start date).

I don't agree that you would see an overall line that has a generally positive slope from 4000BC to say the Renaissance when plotting per capita income. There were improvements and new discoveries, but these were offset as people moved into more marginal land and had to support larger populations on land that was cultivated. Basically a Malthusian world.

[Razgovory]

Raz - read into it - I'm positive you'll find that little by little living conditions improved throughout the middle agres in Britain.

From what I've read they did not do so consistently.  The concept of technological progress was not even understood at the time.  In those days, people still believed their ancestors lived better then they did and humanity would continue to decline.  The population did rise for a while in the Middle Ages, due to environmental factors.  When those factors reversed, the population declined rather dramatically.

If what you say is true, then we would expect to see certain phenomenon.  For instance, the gradual decline in famines.  However, this did not happen before the industrial revolution.

[Barrister]

Did you post the right link?  That one doesn't even mention the price of oil...

Maybe some arrows will do the trick: High fuel prices -> high food cost (via fertilizer, transportation etc) -> hunger -> uprisings -> Actual Mad Max.

Are you arguing that the fighting in Libya is caused by high fuel prices?

[Iormlund]

Did you post the right link?  That one doesn't even mention the price of oil...

Maybe some arrows will do the trick: High fuel prices -> high food cost (via fertilizer, transportation etc) -> hunger -> uprisings -> Actual Mad Max.

Are you arguing that the fighting in Libya is caused by high fuel prices?

It is a very, very significant factor. Take a look at this, from a report by the World Bank:

[Ideologue]

They've raised the price of Reese's cups, I can tell you.