US AAA credit rating downgraded

[DGuller]

You equivocate when you say that stupid people have a good reason for being stupid.  No, they don't, stupidity isn't a good reason. 

Intelligent people can have different opinions than I do; however, typically those intelligent can provide defensible arguments for why they think differently.  The people that I imply are stupid cannot, hence why I have open disdain for them.

[MadImmortalMan]

There are worse things to do during a pretty catastrophic recession.  Those saner people wouldn't be quite so willing to let Wall Street casino run amok and get us into this mess in the first place, although to be fair, even the saner ones have some blood on their hands when it comes to this.

As you type this, teh casino is getting ready to destroy billions in wealth.

[Razgovory]

I'm going to go out on limb here and say these last few days, even just Friday and Saturday are going to be seen in future as some sort of watershed, when the mask of economic pre-eminence / invincibility began to slip and the power shift towards China became apparent to all those willing to look through the usual patriotic bluster; Is America now in permanent decline ?

You know, when we go down, we'll take them with us.  Their economic rise is dependent on selling us stuff.  Their type of political structure is not very flexible, if the last twenty years have taught us anything.  The US will survive an economic collapse.  The PRC?  A bit more shaky.  Of course, a change of government could be very, very good for them.  On the other hand, it could just be like Russia.  Incidentally, we'll drag Europe down as well, just like we did in '29.  So I wouldn't look forward to this if I were you.

[CountDeMoney]

With your attitude that we can solve all our problems by just taxing "the rich" enough being reflective of the anti-TP retards in the Dem party, I am pretty certain I am correct in my assessment of the odds that the Dems would have pushed through any actual spending reductions.

Your assessment that "without the brinksmanship our overall situation in regards to the debt mess would be worse, not better" is what makes you retarded.

You know what would've happened without the brinksmanship over the debt ceiling? Nothing.  Like the last 30 fucking times it's gone up.

The credit rating did not drop because of the brinksmanship, it fell because despite the brinksmanship, congress still did not do squat to address the basic problem.

Talk about drinking kool-aid, you can't get enough of the standard BS out of the left. Blame the rich, if only they paid more taxes, we wouldn't be in this mess, no matter how much we spend.

The tea party refused to raise taxes, but the latte left refuses to address spending in any real way. The combination is, of course, a fucking disaster. Thanks a lot, radical dumbasses who care more about making sure the other guy loses than making sure we all win.

Way to swallow the Kool-Aid over actuarial accounting procedures, Berk.

[/quote]

There are two truths here: the credit rating would not have dropped if the ceiling was raised without the GOP threatening to shut down the government, and you still can't crop for shit. 

Now go buy more gold, Bagger.

[The Brain]

Will America lash out in its death throes or will it go gentle into that good night?

[Admiral Yi]

There are worse things to do during a pretty catastrophic recession.

Five more years of the status quo would have put us in Greece's position.

Won't some of the posters who are defending Obama's excellent record on deficit reduction join in with me and tell DGuller how important it is?

[Richard Hakluyt]

It's been 3 years now, I think we can say that this is far more than a mere recession. It seems to me that we are looking at low growth for developed economies for the forseeable future. So, a bit like Japan for the past 25 years. Anyone who wants governments to keep on borrowing vast amounts needs to outline where rapid future growth will come from. Without that growth, which I think will not happen, we are simply living beyond our means.

You know the Italian deficit is not even that high by current standards, about 4.8% of GDP IIRC, but their economy has been asleep for at least a decade with miniscule growth.  It will probably stagnate or even shrink for at least another decade, which is why their debts are so scary.

[citizen k]

The cultural conflict is between the socially backwards people and somewhat saner people elsewhere. 

That's a problem across the ages.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

It's dusk for the Western World.

[Princesca]

I'm going to go out on limb here and say these last few days, even just Friday and Saturday are going to be seen in future as some sort of watershed, when the mask of economic pre-eminence / invincibility began to slip and the power shift towards China became apparent to all those willing to look through the usual patriotic bluster; Is America now in permanent decline ?

Meh, who cares. I used to get upset about this, but then I realized that the Brits seem pretty happy. Living under a microscope gets old.

[Princesca]

It's been 3 years now, I think we can say that this is far more than a mere recession. It seems to me that we are looking at low growth for developed economies for the forseeable future.

I, for one, welcome our new extra-galactic overlords who are going to provide us with amazing technology that will create all necessary material goods out of thin air so we can all shuck responsibility and live in a new utopian world order where puppies poo rainbows and we have universal peace and harmony. 

[grumbler]

The downgrade to the US rating was inevitable unless the US government both cut spending and increased revenues.  When government spending is 25% of GDP and income is 14% of GDP, cutting spending, even heavily (to, say, 20% of GDP) just doesn't answer.

Not even a super genius math whiz like DGuller claims to be can make 14 = 25.  Not even Dan Ryan can do that with his Emerald City Plan.

[Iormlund]

The US might have been downgraded even without the debt ceiling antics, but the main result has been to destroy the image of US as an invulnerable bastion for your money. And in a world that seems more concerned by perception than actual numbers, that is something that you might come to regret.

[grumbler]

The US might have been downgraded even without the debt ceiling antics, but the main result has been to destroy the image of US as an invulnerable bastion for your money. And in a world that seems more concerned by perception than actual numbers, that is something that you might come to regret.

As might you. 

[Iormlund]

Nah, I'll be too busy banging my head against the wall as I see my country driven down by one moron after another.