Football (Soccer) Thread

[Valmy]

When I 'were a lad growing up in the wilds of Palo Alto California I too learned to do many silly things. Among those things was learning that Sports Franchises are sometimes referred to as clubs colloquially.

Colloquially?  No they are referred to that way officially.



It is because all pro teams have their roots in the old amatuer baseball clubs.  When they became professional they continued to be called 'clubs' and so have all of our professional sports erm...clubs.

[Barrister]

It is because all pro teams have their roots in the old amatuer baseball clubs.  When they became professional they continued to be called 'clubs' and so have all of our professional sports erm...clubs.

Well not all pro teams are that old.  But you could still call the Winnipeg Jets (est. 1972 or 1997 depending on who you ask and always as a professional team), is still referred to as a "hockey club".

[Valmy]

It is because all pro teams have their roots in the old amatuer baseball clubs.  When they became professional they continued to be called 'clubs' and so have all of our professional sports erm...clubs.

Well not all pro teams are that old.  But you could still call the Winnipeg Jets (est. 1972 or 1997 depending on who you ask and always as a professional team), is still referred to as a "hockey club".

I did not mean that all our professional clubs () are direct descendents of 19th century baseball clubs but that since those were the first pro organizations that all the others have gone along with their naming conventions.

[Viking]

Still a dirty Icelander.

I reject being called dirty. Icelanders fetishize bathing (as well as genealogy and knitting). Please find a different and factual insult.

[Viking]

When I 'were a lad growing up in the wilds of Palo Alto California I too learned to do many silly things. Among those things was learning that Sports Franchises are sometimes referred to as clubs colloquially.

Colloquially?  No they are referred to that way officially.

Fan Art? It didn't have any logo or copyright info just like an official poster would have?

I wasn't gonna insist on proof that no pink unicorns exist but to recap

1. I complained that US soccer franchises were assuming silly names copying european and south american names that had history.
2. I pointed out that US soccer franchises are not clubs nor ever have been and have no business calling themselves FC

A. The Languish Reaction was, colloquially franchises are often called clubs.

3. What I should have said here is that was beside the point as I was talking about official franchise names.

B. Valmy links to fan art that calles the NY Giants a Football Club.


So, do any US pro sport franchises refer to themselves as clubs outside of soccer? either officially or as referring to the franchise.

... and even if they do it is silly for a club to call itself Real Salt Lake (which king?) or DC United (which two clubs united?) or FC Dallas (when were they ever a club?). They are using these names to sound like european clubs with pedigree. That is crass and degrading. Kowtowing to an alien tradition if you ask me.

[Grey Fox]

You have a point on the soccer teams Viking but they do it because other sports franchise have an history of it & Europe. It's soccer, in America it has to get fans away from the Euro leagues to them.

Montreal, has had an hockey team for 104 years. It's official name is Club de Hockey Canadiens before that it was Club Athletic Canadiens.

Most of the late 1800s early 1900s sports teams were clubs of somekind, those that survive until today have kept that name.

[Jacob]

Yeah, most of the original hockey teams were amateur clubs before they became professional. Thus even by Viking's criteria I believe they can legitimately be called hockey clubs.

[Valmy]

B. Valmy links to fan art that calles the NY Giants a Football Club.

I am just telling you what is true.  It is a little retro to use it like that which why I used a retro piece to show you and um...why would a fan do that if it were not what they are called?  If I was employed by the NYG I would just use my paystub but I ain't.  Pro teams have been calling themselves that officially since 1869 that is just a fact.

So, do any US pro sport franchises refer to themselves as clubs outside of soccer? either officially or as referring to the franchise.

Yes they all do and always have.

Since it seems I need a lawyer here is the legal crap Major League baseball has on their website:

© 2001-2013 MLB Advanced Media, L.P. All rights reserved.

The following are trademarks or service marks of Major League Baseball entities and may be used only with permission of Major League Baseball Properties, Inc. or the relevant Major League Baseball entity: Major League, Major League Baseball, MLB, the silhouetted batter logo, World Series, National League, American League, Division Series, League Championship Series, All-Star Game, and the names, nicknames, logos, uniform designs, color combinations, and slogans designating the Major League Baseball clubs and entities, and their respective mascots, events and exhibitions.

[Viking]

You are all still missing the point.

There is a difference between colloquial and formal names. My issue is not with the colloquial use of "club", though this is rare. Team or Franchise are orders of magnitude more common. My issue is with using "club" (along with the other errors) in formal team or franchise names pulled out of the blue.

Note, this actually also applies to my team in england, Chelsea, which was never a club, but rather a professional team assembled by a businessman who found an empty unused stadium and an unused fanbase. This is one of the reasons why chelsea is still considered a bit posh. So it is not just a US issue. It is a language issue.

[Jacob]

We got that Viking.

I think you're the one missing a point - as a matter of fact, several North American teams in Hockey and Football (at the very least), started as clubs of exactly the kind you say legitimizes them using the term.

That's the reason why subsequent franchises call themselves clubs as well - much like Chelsea.

[Valmy]

Well what is true is that generally teams in the US do not use their official names.  They are known by their mascots, again because of our history.  There used to be lots of teams in the same city so being 'New York Baseball Club' when there are seven New York Baseball clubs at the same time is a little unwieldy so our solution was simply to call them by their nicknames and eventually official mascots.  I know in Europe they solved this problem a little differently.

Major League Soccer, though, is a baby so they will look for whatever they can find to make themselves appealing to fans.  Mimicing popular European Football clubs is a good way to go about it.  After all that is what our NFL did, they would often put a NFL team in a city and give it the same name (or as close to it as they could legally manage) as the existing MLB club to try to attract the professional sports fanbase.  Detroit Tigers -> Detroit Lions, Chicago Cubs -> Chicago Bears, Boston Braves -> Boston Redskins, New York Giants -> New York Football Giants.

So really going Manchester United -> DC United, Real Madrid -> Real Salt Lake and so forth is pretty expected even if the context of why the name makes sense is lost so I can see your point there.  However being 'New York FC' is perfectly fine since they are, indeed, a Football Club...though in the US they should really be called a Soccer Club but to be honest one of the main signs you show you are a true Soccer fan here is by calling it 'football'.

[Jacob]

Interesting, Valmy. Didn't know about the Lions & Tigers, Cubs & Bears thing.

[Jacob]

On the other side - interesting story about the recent resurgence in German football: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22628302

One thing I didn't know - and which I think is pretty cool - is that all the German clubs (at least in the top two tiers) are majority fan owned. And it makes it much more affordable to go to the games.

[Admiral Yi]

I agree with Anally Antisceptic Oil Boy that US fodbol team names are gimmicky.

[Zanza]

On the other side - interesting story about the recent resurgence in German football: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22628302

One thing I didn't know - and which I think is pretty cool - is that all the German clubs (at least in the top two tiers) are majority fan owned. And it makes it much more affordable to go to the games.

VfL Wolfsburg is owned by Volkswagen AG and Bayer Leverkusen is owned by Bayer AG. Of course neither Volkswagen nor Bayer intend to make a profit with their teams and mainly use them for advertising and corporate social responsibility. And being responsible to their shareholders, they can't invest gigantic sums into their teams like those sheiks and oligarchs.

Hoffenheim is not officially owned by Dietmar Hopp (founder of SAP), but he invested huge sums into the club.