Football (Soccer) Thread

[HVC]

Someone had a poll on Swedish support for the Norwegians. Apparently 78% of Swedes are happy or very happy and support Norway. 11% hold a sane normal view and hope they lose.

while I disagree on your target I appreciate your pettiness as it matches my own. May the failures of your enemies bring you the joy you shall never attain from the success of your team. As both a Leafs and Portugal fan I know that space well

[Sheilbh]

Wasn't sure of the right thread for this - but ahead of England-Argentina tomorrow, a very apt obituary today. RIP:

Antonio Rattín obituary: Argentina captain famous for Wembley defiance
Captain of Argentina who refused to leave the field after being sent off against England in the 1966 World Cup quarter-final dies aged 89

Rattín was a bruising midfielder and leader for the Argentinians
B66/Avalon
The Times
Tuesday July 14 2026, 12.01am, The Times

The footballer Antonio Rattín was a trained electrician, and while he was captaining his country in the World Cup quarter-final against England at Wembley in 1966 sparks began to fly.

Before one of the most controversial moments in the 96-year history of the World Cup, the South Americans were more than holding their own, orchestrated by the towering 6ft 3in Rattín, a bruising figure in midfield and natural leader of men. It was a turbulent match from the outset; both the English and the Argentinians gave no quarter in the tackle.

The German referee, the notoriously pernickety Rudolf Kreitlein, was swift to make known his authority — he even booked Bobby Charlton. Yet as the match progressed it was the names of the Argentinians that were accumulating in his notebook. Commentating on the match for the BBC, Kenneth Wolstenholme said: "And another one is going in the book. I think that's about four he's got in his notebook now ... Jingo, he'll fill a library before he's finished. I think the best thing for Mr Kreitlein to do is to buy an official programme. He's got them all in there."

Rattín's name was among those taken for a trip on Bobby Charlton, and moments later the Argentinian escaped further punishment for a crude challenge on Geoff Hurst. In the 35th minute, after Kreitlein had booked yet another of his team-mates, Rattín intervened to remonstrate with the official, inspiring Wolstenholme to add, "and Rattín is dicing with death. He's arguing with the referee."

Rattín recalled: "The referee was totally biased. He gave everything to England. Because I was captain of our team I showed the gentleman my captain's armband and asked for an interpreter hoping to find some sort of explanation for the decisions he was making." Rattín kept shouting to Kreitlein, "Quiero a un interprete" ("I want an interpreter"). He recalled: "I must have said it 20 or 30 times, pointing to my armband, but he couldn't understand a word I said." Kreitlein promptly sent him off for "violence of the tongue", which Rattín lamented was "simply for a misunderstanding".

Rattín continued to argue with him. A protracted altercation ensued. Rattín's team-mates swarmed around the referee on the sideline, at which point the man himself was ironically the only Argentinian left on the pitch. At one stage it looked as though the whole Argentina team would leave the pitch in protest.

Officials from the Football Association and Fifa arrived to tell Rattín to leave the pitch. After an eight-minute hold-up, Rattín finally trudged off escorted by two police officers. He claimed he was pelted with chocolate bars and beer cans from the crowd. He stopped to contemptuously wipe his hands on the corner flag that was emblazoned with an image of the Union Jack. The sense of farce was heightened when he found the marching band's mascot, a Shetland pony, blocking his way towards the tunnel.

Rattín was the first man to be sent off at Wembley in its then 43-year history.


Rattín leads his team out for a 2-0 defeat of Switzerland in the 1966 group stages, and below, for the group stage match against West Germany


England eventually won the game with a solitary goal from Hurst 13 minutes from the end. After the final whistle, Kreitlein was escorted off the pitch with a police guard and the England manager, Alf Ramsey, forcibly prevented George Cohen from swapping shirts with an opponent. After further brouhaha from the South Americans in the dressing rooms, Ramsey described them as "animals". It was an ironic use of the word in that in Argentina Rattín went by the nickname of "el Rata" ("the Rat").

The English public treated Rattín with surprising generosity after the game. The next day he decided to amble around London and was treated courteously.

Taxi drivers offered him free rides, barmen bought him drinks and shoppers asked for his autograph. Rattín remained to the end a professed anglophile, yet always insisted that England's World Cup victory that year was a "conspiracy".

He claimed that England and West Germany made a secret agreement so that an Englishman would referee West Germany's quarter-final against Uruguay — in which two South Americans were sent off — and a West German would referee England's game against Argentina, ensuring both South American teams lost. To back his claim, he said that Argentinian officials were invited to a meeting to allocate referees for the quarter-finals. When they arrived at 7pm, they were told the meeting was over and the officials had been chosen.

"They beat us 1-0 and don't forget we had to play with ten men for 60 minutes," Rattín recalled. "We still matched them and we were very unfortunate to lose. Even if we had equalised, the ref would have sent other players off or given them a penalty. Simply put, England could not lose in any circumstances. I regret twisting the English flag, I shouldn't have done that, but I don't regret anything else."

Antonio Ubaldo Rattín was born in 1937 to Italian immigrants in Tigre, a suburb of Buenos Aires. His mother washed workers' clothes and the only thing taking him away from endless games of street football was being dispatched to deliver clean uniforms.

He refused offers from other clubs to sign for Boca Juniors, the team he had always supported. He duly signed for them and made his debut aged 19 in September 1956 against Boca's fierce rivals, River Plate. Boca won the game 2-1, and Rattín soon became a favourite with the fans as a strolling, scheming defensive midfielder who was good on the ball, exuded a touch of arrogance and had the capacity to intimidate opponents.

Boca Juniors won the Argentinian championship in 1962 and that summer Rattín represented Argentina at the World Cup in Chile. The next season Boca reached the final of the South American Copa Libertadores, in September 1963. Though they lost over two legs to Brazil's Santos, Rattín won the respect of Pelé as one of his most formidable opponents. Boca would go on to win the Argentinian championship in 1964 and 1965. After 353 league appearances and 26 goals for Boca Juniors, and winning the last of his 34 Argentina caps in 1969, Rattín retired as a professional footballer in 1970. He went on to manage Gimnasia de La Plata, a football team in Buenos Aires province, and in 1980 was appointed technical director of football at Boca Juniors.

He later moved into politics, being elected to the Argentine Chamber of Deputies in 2001 for the conservative Federalist Unity Party. He stepped down in 2005 and went on to run an insurance business and was vice-president of an investment operation.

Married with three daughters, Rattín professed to such homesickness on trips away with Argentina that he would listen to tapes from his wife and daughters before he went to bed at night. He later insisted that his daughters learn German and English.

That incident at Wembley changed the face of football. Ken Aston, a Fifa official who was pushed by Rattín during the arguments after his sending off, would go on to devise the system of yellow and red cards, which was introduced in the 1970 World Cup and which remains to this day.

Rattín's sending off has not only become part of Wembley folklore, but is cited as the beginning of England and Argentina's tempestuous footballing rivalry, which only intensified after the Falklands crisis in 1982. It would be revisited in the 1986 World Cup quarter-final remembered for Diego Maradona's "hand of God" goal followed by his "goal of the century" that secured Argentina a 2-1 win.

In the countries' 1998 last-16 match, England's captain, David Beckham, was sent off for an act of petulance and Argentina won on penalties. Beckham redeemed himself by scoring the winning penalty in a group match in 2002. The rivalry will be resumed on Wednesday evening in the World Cup semi-final. Sparks could fly.

Antonio Rattín, footballer, was born on May 16, 1937. He died on July 11, 2026, aged 89

Edit: Interestingly given the discussion of Pele in 66 - I think that was the same West German referee who presided over the infamous game against Portugal when Pele was kicked all over the pitch and afterwards swore off international football. Remembered in Goodison/Everton lore as I think the highest attendance ever as so many people wanted to watch Pele and Eusebio. My dad would talk about seeing that game - I don't know if he did or it's just family mythology but that's most stories from dads I think

[Norgy]

I did not mention the lore surrounding Rattin in the WC thread?   

We have been through a few posts about what makes football special in different countries.

I think England's World Cup in 1966 was very much the reason our national broadcaster bought the right to show Stoke City, Wolverhampton Wanderers, Leicester City, Birmingham City and Aston Villa's matches in 1968 or so.

There was one match every Saturday when winter sports were on a break.

Norway does have a disproportionally large number of Wolves fans (and not nearly enough Forest fans).

The English game had already been broadcast by radio for years. And, radio was more important along with the newspaper until the 1990s. When I learned Stan Collymore had left us in 1995 it was from a newspaper. I met Stan, Steve McManaman and a few other Liverpudlians in July on the not-at-all-problematic island of Cyprus 1995.