Football (Soccer) Thread

[Jacob]

I don't see how privilege enters into it.  If the superleague draws richer ratings its either because of superior play or because of sex appeal/name recognition.  Both of those are attributes earned by the teams.

As it stands now, playing at the European level is something that is earned by good play in the preceding year. Under the defunct super league proposal, that would not be the case for the founding club - they would stay in no matter how well or poorly played.

It'd be a bit if the top 3 NBA teams in the last few years managed to create a rule where they got three out of four semi-final spots in the playoffs because they're the most popular and best teams right now.

I suppose you don't have to call that "privilege" if you like, but it is antithetical to the notion to the notion of competition which many of us consider essential to sport.

[Sheilbh]

I suppose you don't have to call that "privilege" if you like, but it is antithetical to the notion to the notion of competition which many of us consider essential to sport.

Also I said "privileges" - ie they have an automatic berth in a league that others have to compete to enter (through coefficients - the most thrilling of sporting prospects). Not "privilege" in a "check your..." kind of way.

I'd add that I think it's impossible to see German football signing up to this given the way the teams are governed there. England also looks very difficult. I know Real, Barcelona and Juve are very keen but it looks difficult.

[Jacob]

I think many casual or non soccer fans wouldn't see the issue with that. It's how it works here across the pond.

If the "super" clubs wanted to break off and form their completely own league isolated from the regular national leagues that be uncool but fine. What they wanted was to continue playing in the national league (and cups) while also starting their own exclusive super tournament that they'd never fail out of.

[Sheilbh]

If the "super" clubs wanted to break off and form their completely own league isolated from the regular national leagues that be uncool but fine. What they wanted was to continue playing in the national league (and cups) while also starting their own exclusive super tournament that they'd never fail out of.

Yeah and you can see the point right now from the domestic league's position. At the minute basically if you get in the top 8 there is probably some sort of European football (for now, coefficient pending). That earns clubs a good amount of money (especially if they're not one of the standard top 6-7). Right now that includes Villa in 2nd and Brighton in 8th. From my understanding of the new A22 system it's unlikely either of those clubs would get European Super League football next season even if they carried on doing well.

That incentive is part of what makes the Premier League competitive, which is part of what makes it an attractive prospect when they're selling the TV rights. I don't really think it's possible to have this type of European league at the top without I think seriously undermining the domestic leagues (including their commercial potential) - because ultimately what's the point if there's no reward. You might as well just stay up bank the money - but it's pointless especially if you're not a fan of one of the blessed teams. Every side learns their place - just be mid-table. Best case scenario it leads to a lot more focus on domestic cups, maybe?

[Gups]

Ah cross-party support to protect UEFAs monopoly. It is truly heart-warming. The whole furor over the super league was vomit-inducing, all the high ideas spouted and clueless fans rallied by them to defend the disgusting cesspool that is UEFA.

Yep. The super league will definately be a grass roots led organisation devoted to protecting the integrity of the game and the fans that actually go to matches and will be entirely uninterested in securing the income streams of billionaire club owners.

Seriously you guys should get into American sports if you don't like meritocracy and think its your club's god-given right to European big league football every season. Because the people who actually go to games sure as hell don't agree with you.

My point is that football (professional certainly) is a form of entertainment. Attaching various high ideas to it results in disgusting environments like all these high and mighty ideas being in UEFA's and FIFA's custody.

I am not pro-Super League. I am anti-UEFA. Like with every  commercial enterprise competition can only be good for their customers, the fans.

Also, you guys clearly missed the last announcement by this whatever TV company that's still bigly behind the Super League that they are planning an A and B league with something like 48 teams in total, with relegation and promotion, and free streaming of matches through their app.

Which I hope they manage to pull off because the hypocrisy of the fans crying out against it but still unable to resist Champions League - level matches available for free, will be delicious.

Yep. I'm sure they will be willing to allow RM to be relegated. Anyone can promise anything when they have no accountability to anyone.this is fundamentally the same group of people behind the previous debacle.

[Jacob]

I haven't read up on the new proposal, so I don't have an opinion on it yet.

[Syt]

I think many casual or non soccer fans wouldn't see the issue with that. It's how it works here across the pond.

If the "super" clubs wanted to break off and form their completely own league isolated from the regular national leagues that be uncool but fine. What they wanted was to continue playing in the national league (and cups) while also starting their own exclusive super tournament that they'd never fail out of.

Yeah, the staying in the "normal" league bit is what makes it incongruous. Though I also get it - most big clubs have historic rivalries in their domestic leagues that tend to draw attention and money (e.g. Real v Barcelona, Bayern v Dortmund, etc.) that might otherwise disappear unless bot clubs move, not to mention outcry from fans about losing their traditional rivalries (esp. if it's against local clubs that are not top contenders at the moment).

[Jacob]

Oh I get why the "super" clubs want that, but I don't see why the rest should accept that.

[Josquius]

The new proposal on the surface doesn't seem so bad. Just a replacement champions league with teams continuing to play in domestic competitions.

Given the history though colour me suspicious it might be a bait and switch. Also very unclear on how they intend promotion to work.

[Admiral Yi]

As it stands now, playing at the European level is something that is earned by good play in the preceding year. Under the defunct super league proposal, that would not be the case for the founding club - they would stay in no matter how well or poorly played.

It'd be a bit if the top 3 NBA teams in the last few years managed to create a rule where they got three out of four semi-final spots in the playoffs because they're the most popular and best teams right now.

I suppose you don't have to call that "privilege" if you like, but it is antithetical to the notion to the notion of competition which many of us consider essential to sport.

Terrible analogy.  The Superleague wouldn't guarantee seedings in existing league titles.  They would create a stand alone entity.

Better analogy would be the Saudi LIV golf tour vs. the PGA.  Established name players get offered big signing bonuses to play LIV tournaments.

This is a throwaway observation, so don't take it too seriously, but it seems to me pro/con on the Superleague issue tends to fall out on club loyalty lines.  Big Six supporters somewhat pro, everyone else vehemently against.

[Jacob]

Plenty of (self-annointed) big six supporters were against the super league. Personally I think those are the real fans who know and love the sport as opposed to fairweather bandwagon fans.

In any case I believe you are wrong (and that's the crux of my objection). The super league teams were not to be self-contained - they would still play in the regular league and the super league would still offer a super slim offer of potential inclusion for regular teams.

If the super league teams just fucked off and played in their own sandbox that'd be okayish, but that was not the proposal. They wanted to position themselves as the international playoff for the regular league, with guaranteed spots for themselves.

Total garbage.

[Admiral Yi]

If the super league teams just fucked off and played in their own sandbox that'd be okayish, but that was not the proposal. They wanted to position themselves as the international playoff for the regular league, with guaranteed spots for themselves.

And the antis are to dismiss their attempt at positioning.  Issue adjudicated.

[Gups]

As it stands now, playing at the European level is something that is earned by good play in the preceding year. Under the defunct super league proposal, that would not be the case for the founding club - they would stay in no matter how well or poorly played.

It'd be a bit if the top 3 NBA teams in the last few years managed to create a rule where they got three out of four semi-final spots in the playoffs because they're the most popular and best teams right now.

I suppose you don't have to call that "privilege" if you like, but it is antithetical to the notion to the notion of competition which many of us consider essential to sport.

Terrible analogy.  The Superleague wouldn't guarantee seedings in existing league titles.  They would create a stand alone entity.

Better analogy would be the Saudi LIV golf tour vs. the PGA.  Established name players get offered big signing bonuses to play LIV tournaments.

This is a throwaway observation, so don't take it too seriously, but it seems to me pro/con on the Superleague issue tends to fall out on club loyalty lines.  Big Six supporters somewhat pro, everyone else vehemently against.

The last proposal fell apart because of very strong opposition/protests from the supporters of the English clubs that were invited.

[Jacob]

And the antis are to dismiss their attempt at positioning.  Issue adjudicated.

I'm afraid I don't follow.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah there were impromptu protests against a super league in England by the fans of the English clubs that were included against their own clubs at their stadiums.

I think the divide within those fanbases is maybe a bit casuals more pro, more "committed" more anti.