Football (Soccer) Thread

[Sheilbh]

By the way, the necessary stature of a possible new coach is also something that I've seen discussed for however replaces Solskjaer at Man United. I heard one of the possible names being discussed for a replacement was Brighton's Graham Potter, who apparently has a growing reputation in the UK, but his name was immediately followed by a "good luck getting Ronaldo to listen to him" kind of sentence. This was contrasted with guys like Conte, who could get away with, for instance, benching him.

Yeah - I think it's an issue for the "super-clubs". Either you hire some form of club legend or you hire someone who has already managed a super-club/been on that merry-go-round. With the possible exception of Germany/Bayern - but look at City, Chelsea, Liverpool, United, PSG, Juve, Real and Barcelona. They're all fishing in a very shallow pool - and the last few years were particularly extreme with Solskjaer, Lampard, Zidane, Koeman, Pirlo. In terms of managerial experience I don't think any of them would get the job - but in terms of getting respect from players and working in that context, it works.

There's maybe a couple of liminal clubs that are considered big enough to provide the right type of experience for you to be considered for one of those jobs - the other big Italian teams, Dortmund, Atletico.

Edit: Incidentally I really rate Graham Potter - Spurs or Everton should have gone for him. But I think even there the managerial pipeline has slightly broken down. I'm not sure that doing well at, say, Brighton, or Burnley or Norwich is now necessarily enough for aspirational upper-mid-table clubs like West Ham, Everton or Spurs to go for you/it may be perceived as too high risk.

[FunkMonk]

So it's Xavi. It might work, he has a lot of coaching experience from a similar league.

I love Xavi, but winning a bunch of trophies in Qatar is barely a cut above FunkMonk's qualifications for the job.

Barca you will regret this!!

[The Larch]

By the way, the necessary stature of a possible new coach is also something that I've seen discussed for however replaces Solskjaer at Man United. I heard one of the possible names being discussed for a replacement was Brighton's Graham Potter, who apparently has a growing reputation in the UK, but his name was immediately followed by a "good luck getting Ronaldo to listen to him" kind of sentence. This was contrasted with guys like Conte, who could get away with, for instance, benching him.

Yeah - I think it's an issue for the "super-clubs". Either you hire some form of club legend or you hire someone who has already managed a super-club/been on that merry-go-round. With the possible exception of Germany/Bayern - but look at City, Chelsea, Liverpool, United, PSG, Juve, Real and Barcelona. They're all fishing in a very shallow pool - and the last few years were particularly extreme with Solskjaer, Lampard, Zidane, Koeman, Pirlo. In terms of managerial experience I don't think any of them would get the job - but in terms of getting respect from players and working in that context, it works.

There's maybe a couple of liminal clubs that are considered big enough to provide the right type of experience for you to be considered for one of those jobs - the other big Italian teams, Dortmund, Atletico.

Edit: Incidentally I really rate Graham Potter - Spurs or Everton should have gone for him. But I think even there the managerial pipeline has slightly broken down. I'm not sure that doing well at, say, Brighton, or Burnley or Norwich is now necessarily enough for aspirational upper-mid-table clubs like West Ham, Everton or Spurs to go for you/it may be perceived as too high risk.

I also have the feeling that tis is exacerbated in England because so many former players go into punditry/business rather than become coaches, something that other countries have no problem about, as there's a continuous pipeline from players to coaches almost as soon as they retire from their playing careers. Lampard and Gerrard might be the exceptions to the rule. Also Rooney, but that's more a maybe than anything.

[Sheilbh]

I also have the feeling that tis is exacerbated in England because so many former players go into punditry/business rather than become coaches, something that other countries have no problem about, as there's a continuous pipeline from players to coaches almost as soon as they retire from their playing careers. Lampard and Gerrard might be the exceptions to the rule. Also Rooney, but that's more a maybe than anything.

I think for English players becoming managers maybe, but the club legend appointment doesn't need to be English. So there's also Vieira (who, if he does well at Palace, will end up at Arsenal), Arteta etc - plus other club roles like Cech at Chelsea. I think there's already talk about de Bruyne doing his coaching badges and if he's at all competent he'll be moved through the City system. I feel like Henry is moving to permanent pundit-dom and was maybe a bit like Hoddle - he was too talented and it came too naturally for him to actually be a coach.

I'd expect John Terry eventually ends up at Chelsea - I think the perception is he's done well as an assistant at Villa so will probably get a job at a club lower down the league like Rooney and Lampard. Of them Gerrard is the most interesting because Rangers is a genuinely big job, just in a smaller market. But he has experience of hot house media and fan pressure, a real budget, competing in Europe etc.

Also a lot of the pundits have tried management varying degrees of success - Neville, Souness, Keane all had time as a manager (to varying degrees).

[Tamas]

I can't say I envied Lampard when offered the Chelsea job. I mean, maybe he is just not self-aware and genuinely was 100% confident he was up for it in which case this doesn't apply, but I imagine it's the kind of thing where you know you may very well not measure up to it, but would regret for the rest of your life if you turned it down.

In all honesty I think he got lucky with his first season, and the basic idea he had for tactics was decent enough, but he seemed incapable of adapting it as circumstances required. Once the players realised this morale fell and he was done.

[FunkMonk]

Arteta is interesting because he became Pep's protege at Man City and was presumably in the pipeline there until Arsenal came in for him (the second time  ). Pep still bigs him up every chance he gets, which I'm not sure how much is genuinely because he thinks he's a future legendary manager, how much is because Arteta is his friend, and how much is mind game quackery 

The competition for scooping up the next big manager is really interesting in England.

[celedhring]

So, people are sharing a video of Xavi explaining his tactics and it's essentially copy-paste of peak 2010s Barça (which makes sense, that's the system he played in), and I'm already hard. 

Hopefully we aren't getting Catalan Solksjaer.

[Sheilbh]

I can't say I envied Lampard when offered the Chelsea job. I mean, maybe he is just not self-aware and genuinely was 100% confident he was up for it in which case this doesn't apply, but I imagine it's the kind of thing where you know you may very well not measure up to it, but would regret for the rest of your life if you turned it down.

In all honesty I think he got lucky with his first season, and the basic idea he had for tactics was decent enough, but he seemed incapable of adapting it as circumstances required. Once the players realised this morale fell and he was done.

I agree with Jonathan Wilson - I think he is good at working with young players, I think he's a decent attacking coach but cannot set up a team to defend. Which obviously ties to your point about adaptability.

And I wonder if part of the "secret" of being a good manager is in part being able to know and admit your deficiencies and have people in your team who can deal with that? It's a different generation but Ferguson famously regularly re-freshed his assistant manager and coaching staff to build new tactics/identities for United. Similarly I think Poch and Klopp and Guardiola have a team that travels with them that comes as a package to deliver their style. On the other extreme, I don't think Martinez is capable defensively and I don't think he has the team with him to remedy that which leaves his teams exposed.

Hopefully we aren't getting Catalan Solksjaer.

In Solskjaer's defence I think he has had a decent few years and United have improved. Admittedly improving morale after a team's entered the Mourinho death-spiral might not be that great of an achievement, but he deserves some credit for it.

I just don't think he's capable of moving beyond that point (or necessarily replicating it anywhere else). And I'll say it again Ronaldo is another Sanchez moment for United.

[The Larch]

The signing of Ronaldo was completely absurd, it was a knee jerk move by United just because they couldn't stand the idea of him ending up at City, and it completely ruined whatever project they had going on. Now they have a broken team, a prima donna striker who needs the team to play for him and won't help in defence and a glut of young attacking players who can't all play at the same time.

[Sheilbh]

And speaking of John Terry the odds of him being appointed Newcastle manager have been slashed. Saw one Newcastle fan on Twitter reply: "Can't see it, Saudis ae trying to clean up their image. This would be a disastrous appointment on and off the pitch."

Imagine being such a toxic person that associating with you is a reputational risk for the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia

[PDH]

Barca you will regret this!!

I was rooting for you, Funk.

[FunkMonk]

Arsenal mugging Leicester City away by 2 goals.

Life is good. 

[FunkMonk]

Ole got lucky United are playing Spurs after the Liverpool hiding

[Zoupa]

Ole got lucky United are playing Spurs after the Liverpool hiding

Another dreadful performance. 5 wins 5 losses, 9 goals scored in 10 games... Midfield is way too slow in the build up and Son is the only one trying runs. Kane has clearly given up on Spurs and the fans are turning on him, fast.

Nuno is clearly the wrong coach for a team that is not suited to defensive play.

[Josquius]

Football doesn't exist anymore. I have my fingers in my ears and eyes closed for the forseeable.