Football (Soccer) Thread

[Duque de Bragança]

Huge boos when England players took the knee as well - and I get they're separate organisations but I sort of feel like if a country has been banned from having fans by UEFA for racist and homophobic behaviour, then that should probably also apply to FIFA games as well. I don't know - maybe that's not right but it seems strange that Hungary won't be allowed fans because of behaviour at the Euros for European games (so Nations League?), so instead FIFA will do their own investigation and own punishment for whether the fans banned for racism in a tournament literally two months ago might be racist.

The knee feel good comedy, often used by casual racists such as Neymar or real ones such as Demba Ba to divert attentions from their own racism, was also booed in England for that matter. At least Hungarians are not racist language-wise, cf. Cavani forbidden to use his language because it might offend some Anglo ignoramus.

As for stupid supporters, it's a tie between England and Hungary but no contest on the pitch.  England won, that was the best possible answer.
For the objects thrown into the pitch and illegal pyrotechnics I guess the stadium or part of it should get some sanctions anyways such as a partial closure.

[Sheilbh]

The knee feel good comedy, often used by casual racists such as Neymar or real ones such as Demba Ba to divert attentions from their own racism, was also booed in England for that matter.

Sure in one friendly before the Euros. All the way through the Euros applause drowned out any boos at players taking the knee and started as soon as they did to stop any booers. And it's got broad approval given the racist abuse black players face - and, in this game, faced.

It does happen at certain clubs - everyone is stunned to discover Millwall fans don't like an anti-racist gesture - but is also broadly applauded in the club game here with fans back.

[Duque de Bragança]

Booing the knee farce is ok in England but not in Hungary. Verstanden!

Given all the incidents in the Euro Final, not just knee booing (still no answer about the racist abuse at Cavani for daring to use his language), this is comical.

[Sheilbh]

Booing the knee farce is ok in England but not in Hungary. Verstanden!

No it was wrong in England and it's Hungary. But I think it's wrong to characterise the response as the same.

But I think there is a difference between games in England (of which there were many during the Euros ) where taking the knee wasn't booed at any game, but was in a pre-tournament friendly, v games in Hungary (and Russia for that matter) where it was booed at every game. In Hungary that far-right ultra group also had homophobic banners etc - they are the reason UEFA's making Hungary play behind closed doors (and I still find it crazy that UEFA and FIFA don't sort of mirror penalties for this sort of thing). I think there is a difference between the two.

English football has a problem with racism - English football has a problem with a significant proportion of fans. I wouldn't deny that for a second and there was a lot of coverage of it. But this game wasn't in England, these weren't English fans and I think it's probably reasonable to say that the process seems a bit further along in England (and I think it started in the club game). I'm not going to sit here and lecture Hungary fans on how to fix it or pretend England's a model - but I think it is okay for English people to call it out. The fact that English racists exist does not mean English people should therefore just silently pretend not to notice racism elsewhere - I think call it out but don't hold ourselves up as a model.

Given all the incidents in the Euro Final, not just knee booing (still no answer about the racist abuse at Cavani for daring to use his language), this is comical.

I agree on the Euro final and especially the racist abuse that those players received. I have also flagged the far stronger outpouring of support they received. I'd be happy to do the same for any opposition from other Hungary fans against this far-right group - from that image it looks like the Carpathian Brigade. Not least because I think it is primarily an issue that football sort of needs to address within itself. But I think on a club level fines don't work - the €30k fine for monkey chants at a player is not going to cause clubs or other fans to respond - so I generally support banning fans for games after racist or homophobic incidents and I fully back players who walk off the pitch if they're subject to abuse (again that goes within the English game, European club games and international football).

We just disagree on Cavani - so I'm not sure there's much to add

Edit: The whole argument on this reminds me of this "Yet you participate in society. Curious!" meme to be honest.

[Duque de Bragança]

No it was wrong in England and it's Hungary. But I think it's wrong to characterise the response as the same.

But I think there is a difference between games in England (of which there were many during the Euros ) where taking the knee wasn't booed at any game, but was in a pre-tournament friendly, v games in Hungary (and Russia for that matter) where it was booed at every game. In Hungary that far-right ultra group also had homophobic banners etc - they are the reason UEFA's making Hungary play behind closed doors (and I still find it crazy that UEFA and FIFA don't sort of mirror penalties for this sort of thing). I think there is a difference between the two.

There is a difference indeed, as booing an empty feel good PR move (not gracious I'll grant you that) is far from yelling racist insults at people.

English football has a problem with racism - English football has a problem with a significant proportion of fans. I wouldn't deny that for a second and there was a lot of coverage of it. But this game wasn't in England, these weren't English fans and I think it's probably reasonable to say that the process seems a bit further along in England (and I think it started in the club game). I'm not going to sit here and lecture Hungary fans on how to fix it or pretend England's a model - but I think it is okay for English people to call it out. The fact that English racists exist does not mean English people should therefore just silently pretend not to notice racism elsewhere - I think call it out but don't hold ourselves up as a model.

Yet Cavani gets lectured by people clueless about his language, or rather specific dialect, not just by English people but by the FA, so people with more clout than black t-shirt clad brain dead Hungarian hooligans.

I agree on the Euro final and especially the racist abuse that those players received. I have also flagged the far stronger outpouring of support they received. I'd be happy to do the same for any opposition from other Hungary fans against this far-right group - from that image it looks like the Carpathian Brigade. Not least because I think it is primarily an issue that football sort of needs to address within itself. But I think on a club level fines don't work - the €30k fine for monkey chants at a player is not going to cause clubs or other fans to respond - so I generally support banning fans for games after racist or homophobic incidents and I fully back players who walk off the pitch if they're subject to abuse (again that goes within the English game, European club games and international football).

Let's just say England with his recent history of abuse and "racism" at Central and European people (on good days on bad days other mainlanders might get it) does not get a pass easily on the Continent. Hello Brexit!

We just disagree on Cavani - so I'm not sure there's much to add

Your disagreement is based on ignorance, that's all that can be added indeed. His mate (meaning of negrito in context) did not imply he was black.
I guess it's too much to ask for you take a look at a dictionary and taking into account of the context. Given the sorry state of language learning in the UK, even English e.g the lack of grammar teaching, OTOH, I should not be surprised.

Explanation does not work for casual racism à la Neymar (he was jussed pissed off at a Japanese so yelling Chinoca/whatever Portuguese ethnic slur at Eastern Asian people at Sakai is ok I guess) or real à la Demba Da (take a look at his pro-wahhabist, conspiracy minded, dog whistling politics-rich twitter. It's in French, but I can provide translations, free of charge, if needed!

[Sheilbh]

There is a difference indeed as booing an empty feel good PR move is far from yelling racist insults at people.

I think that's probably the crux of our difference of views on this.

Yet Cavani gets lectured by people clueless about his language, or rather specific dialect, not just by English people but by the FA, so people with more clout than black t-shirt clad brain dead Hungarian hooligans.

He wasn't lectured - he was given a suspension and everyone's moved on. This wasn't like the Suarez incident with United coming out in "Free Cavani" t-shirts.

Let's just say England with his recent history of abuse and "racism" at Central and European people (on good days on bad days other mainlanders might get it) does not get a pass easily on the Continent. Hello Brexit!

Again - I'm happy to also call that out. But I just don't really see the relevance.

Your disagreement is based on ignorance, that's all that can be added indeed. His mate (meaning of negrito in context) did not imply he was black.
I guess it's too much to ask for you take a look at a dictionary and taking into account of the context. Given the sorry state of language learning in the UK, even English e.g the lack of grammar teaching, OTOH, I should not be surprised.

Sure - I get that.

If I was famous and employed by an American brand and living and working in the US - I would not post a social media message to a friend about fancying a fag despite it having a different meaning. I don't blame Cavani for that or think he's a bad person or a racist, but he used language that in the context of Manchester United is unacceptable because in that context and in England it can be interepreted and read as racist - and if a bunch of Manc kids started saying it in the schoolyard it would clearly be racist.

I blame the club - I know players in that type of club get guidelines and explanations on social media. I think that should have been included, especially after the Suarez the word and it's context/use by Uruguayans is quite well known because of that.

What you can say if you are employed by a Chinese brand and working in China is different than in Russia, which is different than the US, which is different than the UK.

Edit: And also obviously posting something on Instagram when you have 8.7 million followers is different from a WhatsApp to a mate.

Explanation does not work for casual racism à la Neymar (he was jussed pissed off at a Japanese so yelling Chinoca/whatever Portuguese ethnic slur at Eastern Asian people at Sakai is ok I guess) or real à la Demba Da (take a look at his pro-wahhabist, conspiracy minded, dog whistling politics-rich twitter. It's in French, but I can provide translations, free of charge, if needed!

I don't know about Demba Ba or Neymar - but I've no issue saying Griezmanm has done some questionable stuff (especially for someone who aspires to play in the MLS) and the Dembele-Griezmann video was a disgrace.

[Duque de Bragança]

I think that's probably the crux of our difference of views on this.

Not being able to spot the difference between real racism and a empty feel good PR move irrelevant to the European situation (UK included  ) is indeed a crux. European polices and gendarmeries don't kill blacks as in the US.

He wasn't lectured - he was given a suspension and everyone's moved on. This wasn't like the Suarez incident with United coming out in "Free Cavani" t-shirts.

Right, he was more than lectured, sanctioned, and was quietly ordered to take up one for the team despite being right. Plain injustice.

Again - I'm happy to also call that out. But I just don't really see the relevance.

Because it goes against your narrative. Hardly surprising. Racism is only relevant against non-whites or so it appears.

Your disagreement is based on ignorance, that's all that can be added indeed. His mate (meaning of negrito in context) did not imply he was black.
I guess it's too much to ask for you take a look at a dictionary and taking into account of the context. Given the sorry state of language learning in the UK, even English e.g the lack of grammar teaching, OTOH, I should not be surprised.

Sure - I get that.

If I was famous and employed by an American brand and living and working in the US - I would not post a social media message to a friend about fancying a fag despite it having a different meaning. I don't blame Cavani for that or think he's a bad person or a racist, but he used language that in the context of Manchester United is unacceptable because in that context and in England it can be interepreted and read as racist - and if a bunch of Manc kids started saying it in the schoolyard it would clearly be racist.

I blame the club - I know players in that type of club get guidelines and explanations on social media. I think that should have been included, especially after the Suarez the word and it's context/use by Uruguayans is quite well known because of that.

Suarez and Cavani, apples and oranges. Even if French journos unsurprisingly translated negro by négro, without giving the context, it was not the same. Suarez I could almost agree with you, since he hardly has a sterling reputation (no pun intended), not because is a friend of Griezmann before you ask (he described Griezmann as almost Uruguayan). Negro is still neutral in Spanish and in Portuguese however, so not enough per se though it may be with context.

Apples and oranges again between fag and negrito
Replacing negrito by fag would not work as well in this context even if the child was black:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06tUDUzsnYw

The US again, the one and only standard.  Hardly a reference. I know the owners of Man U are Yanks but I am not convinced.
Just because Anglos like to hide their ignorance based on xenophobia, bordering on racism, diverting attention by fueling the racism hysteria does not make it an excuse. It's even worse with the boy crying wolf effect when there is real racism.

What you can say if you are employed by a Chinese brand and working in China is different than in Russia, which is different than the US, which is different than the UK.

Ask Griezmann and Dembélé and replace Chinese by Japanese.  Irrelevant to this case, since they clearly used insulting language and attitudes (Dembélé) while Griezmann was smiling and laughing in a very dumb and approving way. IT RemindED me of the casually patronizing dubs and titles of 70's kung fu movies. But then dubbing is an infamy as famously said by Renoir.
Griezmann, even if he is no shining beacon of light that's still bad for him. Dembélé is even dumber.

I don't know about Demba Ba or Neymar - but I've no issue saying Griezmanm has done some questionable stuff (especially for someone who aspires to play in the MLS) and the Dembele-Griezmann video was a disgrace.

Neymar also has an history of anti-homo insults (viadinho sic) though in one case it was directed at some kind of boytoy banging his mom so I am willing to forget that one since I can understand why he was pissed, though avoid social networks in that case would be a good idea
Don't forget Achille Wembo doing his best anglo impression by mixing up negru with négro (négro insulting as it is in French yet okay for hip-hoppers go figure) and the slurs against Romanians by the Erdogan puppet club during the game. It's an Erdogan-supported club so not that surprising.
At least, we agree on something though I hope you are not referring to the black make-up Griezmann video in tribute to the Harlem Globetrotters but just the disparaging video against the Japanese.
OTOH, I reluctantly agree that Griezmann so in love with US pop culture, basket ball hip hop whatever Hollywood crap (no not Casablanca and Citizen Kane),  should pay attention or not plan to play there.
Maybe he could end playing in Uruguay with Suarez or Portugal since his mother is Portuguese after all. He threatened to play for Portugal back in the day when caught in an unauthorized party night some 8 years ago, involving a cab ride between Paris and Le Havre (Normandy). Other players involved who did not have the same possibilities as him, got a harsher sanction.
He lost the Euro and League of Nations but won a World Cup. Not too bad I guess.

[Josquius]

The knee feel good comedy, often used by casual racists such as Neymar or real ones such as Demba Ba to divert attentions from their own racism, was also booed in England for that matter

What is being referred to here?

[Syt]

[Josquius]

Why the crossed out 4?

[Syt]

Why the crossed out 4?

I guess someone made the meme when the score was 4-2 and then had to update it when it changed to 5-2.

[Duque de Bragança]

5th tie in a row for les Bleus, yet Dédé being THE lucky bastard (™La chatte à Dédé™) he is, they are still the first of their group with 9 points while the other teams follow at 5 points i.e Suomi Finland (Perkele ?) and Ukraine.
Thanks to Ukraine not being able to beat Kazakhstan twice, among other ties. Some players were missing but this looks like another tedious and uninspiring qualifying campaign.

The Selecção had a meaningless friendly game vs Qatar (!) in Hungary (!) on their way to the real game vs Azerbaijan (stop laughing they don't get thrashed as they used to be). Still managed to tie Ireland, the weakest Irish team as far as I remember. Yet, they almost won against Portugal last time. 
Plus unlike the previous group, Serbia offers a decent challenge.
3-1 for the Portuguese B-Team with Qatar playing half of the game at 10 due to some amateur defending.

[The Larch]

Oh, the shambles that is South American football.  The Brazil - Argentina match has been stopped by the Brazilian health authorities, as they're seeking to deport 4 Argentinian players coming from the UK that have evaded the country's quarantine rules.

Apparently the reaction of the Argentinian team has been to close themselves in their dressing room. 

[Zoupa]

Bresil really looked inept in that saga. They knew for days about the 4 players coming in from the UK, yet they let them start the game, play 5 minutes then call it off?

Should have banned those players way before that.

[Sheilbh]

Also those players have been in Brazil for several days. It's not like the plane landed and the players were driven to the stadium