Football (Soccer) Thread

[The Larch]

Ceferin not exactly mincing his words:

Alexander Ceferin, the president of Uefa, takes ESL clubs and execs to task

"If I start with Ed Woodward, he called me last Thursday evening saying he's very satisfied with and fully supports the reforms [to the Champions League]. The only thing he want to talk about was FFP, when obviously he had already signed something else ... Andrea Agnelli is the biggest disappointment of all, I've never seen a person that would lie so many times, so persistently as he did. It's unbelievable ... We didn't know we had snakes so close to us, now we know."

He also said that the clubs are using Covid as an excuse, as this has been a long time in the making, spearheaded by Florentino Pérez and Andrea Agnelli.

Edit: More stuff from the press conference:

More from Ceferin
Here's Sean Ingle: "Uefa president Aleksander Čeferin is currently giving a press conference in which he has confirmed that it will stage a revamped 36-club Champions League from 2024 - even if a rival European Super League is established.

He has also confirmed that Uefa is taking legal advice but says he hopes that "as soon as possible .. clubs will be banned from all our competitions - and the players from all our competitons". He was asked whether that meant players from the 12 European Super League clubs would miss Euro 2020 but said it was too early to say.

Čeferin also condemned what he called a "disgraceful and self-serving proposal from clubs motivated by greed", he said. "We are all united against this nonsense of a project."

"I don't want to call them the Dirty Dozen but ..." he added.

Still more from Ceferin
Sean Ingle again: "Čeferin admits that he was blindsided by the European Super League. "I've seen many things in my life, I was a criminal lawyer for 24 years, so I've seen different people, but I've never ever seen people like that," he says. "If I start with Ed Woodward," he adds." I didn't have much contact with him but he called me last Thursday in the evening, saying that he's very satisfied with the reforms, that he fully supports the reforms, and that the only thing he would like to speak about is financial fair play. And obviously he already signed something else."

And the full line on Agnelli: "He's probably the biggest disappointment of all, I don't want to be too personal. But the fact is I've never seen a person lie so many times, so persistently. That he did was unbelievable. I spoke with him on Saturday afternoon. He says, 'These are only rumours. Don't worry, nothing is going on.' And then he said, 'I'll call you in one hour. And he turned off the phone. Next day, we get the announcement.' I've seen many things in my life but not a situation like that. Obviously, greediness is so strong that all the human values evaporate."

[Sheilbh]

The players would have to choose between their lucrative contracts and bi-annual competitions. Doesn't seem like a tough choie.

But that's not the choice.

I mean if Germany stays out they've got all of those options - the other leagues may lose money overall (which would hit the Premier League) but that may make for richer clubs (possibly in Spain?) but it's not like they'd not have other lucrative contracts available. The Champions League would carry on and, in fact, I think UEFA and the remaining clubs would have very strong incentives to make it as good a product as possible.

So you can choose between going to PSG and Bayern, or Napoli, Roma, Lazio or even English clubs that pay over £100k a week like Everton or Leicester or West Ham plus the ability to play for your nation. Or a probably more lucrative contract (and it's unclear how this would impact image rights, commercial endorsements etc). I'm not sure it's entirely obvious which would win out with most players.

[The Larch]

Re. the player ban, that puts players currently under contract with the 12 ESL teams between a rock and a hard place. It's not their fault that their boards have joined this adventure, and they can't break their contracts unilaterally. What are they to do if they want to keep playing for their national teams? Request a transfer?

[Tamas]

Ceferin not exactly mincing his words:

Alexander Ceferin, the president of Uefa, takes ESL clubs and execs to task

"If I start with Ed Woodward, he called me last Thursday evening saying he's very satisfied with and fully supports the reforms [to the Champions League]. The only thing he want to talk about was FFP, when obviously he had already signed something else ... Andrea Agnelli is the biggest disappointment of all, I've never seen a person that would lie so many times, so persistently as he did. It's unbelievable ... We didn't know we had snakes so close to us, now we know."

He also said that the clubs are using Covid as an excuse, as this has been a long time in the making, spearheaded by Florentino Pérez and Andrea Agnelli.

I have exactly zero symphathy for UEFA and FIFA in this (the same amount I have for the ESL teams). Of course they are going to cry, they stand to lose a LOT of money.

[Tamas]

The players would have to choose between their lucrative contracts and bi-annual competitions. Doesn't seem like a tough choie.

But that's not the choice.

I mean if Germany stays out they've got all of those options - the other leagues may lose money overall (which would hit the Premier League) but that may make for richer clubs (possibly in Spain?) but it's not like they'd not have other lucrative contracts available. The Champions League would carry on and, in fact, I think UEFA and the remaining clubs would have very strong incentives to make it as good a product as possible.

So you can choose between going to PSG and Bayern, or Napoli, Roma, Lazio or even English clubs that pay over £100k a week like Everton or Leicester or West Ham plus the ability to play for your nation. Or a probably more lucrative contract (and it's unclear how this would impact image rights, commercial endorsements etc). I'm not sure it's entirely obvious which would win out with most players.

But they can't just walk out on their current contracts can they, especially not if they want to be similarly gainfully employed in the future?

I don't think FIFA should make most of the world's star players choose between their gargantuan paychecks and playing for the national teams, they won't like the choices they'll make.

[The Larch]

Ceferin not exactly mincing his words:

Alexander Ceferin, the president of Uefa, takes ESL clubs and execs to task

"If I start with Ed Woodward, he called me last Thursday evening saying he's very satisfied with and fully supports the reforms [to the Champions League]. The only thing he want to talk about was FFP, when obviously he had already signed something else ... Andrea Agnelli is the biggest disappointment of all, I've never seen a person that would lie so many times, so persistently as he did. It's unbelievable ... We didn't know we had snakes so close to us, now we know."

He also said that the clubs are using Covid as an excuse, as this has been a long time in the making, spearheaded by Florentino Pérez and Andrea Agnelli.

I have exactly zero symphathy for UEFA and FIFA in this (the same amount I have for the ESL teams). Of course they are going to cry, they stand to lose a LOT of money.

As cel said, it's an Alien Vs. Predator kind of scenario. In any case he can still be right about some stuff, and if team officials were still behaving normally until last week, why wouldn't he say it?

[Maladict]

The players would have to choose between their lucrative contracts and bi-annual competitions. Doesn't seem like a tough choie.

South American players will have to choose between breaking their contracts and getting killed back home. Not a tough choice at all 

[Sheilbh]

Re. the player ban, that puts players currently under contract with the 12 ESL teams between a rock and a hard place. It's not their fault that their boards have joined this adventure, and they can't break their contracts unilaterally. What are they to do if they want to keep playing for their national teams? Request a transfer?

Yeah. I think it would be fairer to grandfather them out. Of course I imagine there'll be very little wriggle room in their contracts which will have been written with a new league in mind. But there might be some things they can do - see what the players' unions and FAs say.

But they can't just walk out on their current contracts can they, especially not if they want to be similarly gainfully employed in the future?

If they're good enough to play for those clubs they won't be short of suitors if they could walk out.

But this does get to a bigger of sports being about the only industry where employees can't just move on - you need to buy them out in specified transfer windows - and there's always been special pleading about that because of the need for competitive integrity and how these are valuable assets for the club etc. That may end up being another Americanisation that we end up with out of this that clubs are permanently trading players and free agents matter a lot more.

[Josquius]

I always wondered how that works legally. I can just quit my job and go to a competitor or to a new industry. How come footballers can't just decide to quit. Draws mighty close to (uber well paid) indentured service with the tied in contracts.

The other problem, I have, with the ESL replacing the Champions League is that there will be no more point in fighting on if you're out of league contention. For instance, Liverpool this year. What's the rush to get fourth place. I know there's some prize money, but getting to the ECL is key.

From what I gather they are going for an American style playoff model where the winner of the league has to go into playoffs to actually win the league, and the positions below that having qualification for other European tournaments.
Or so the BBC says

[Sheilbh]

I always wondered how that works legally. I can just quit my job and go to a competitor or to a new industry. How come footballers can't just decide to quit. Draws mighty close to (uber well paid) indentured service with the tied in contracts.

My understanding is that no player really wants to challenge it (look what happened to Bosman after his ruling) so I don't think it's ever got in front of the courts but it's one of those things that probably isn't legal if it was properly challenged. The argument against it is basically just special pleading for football - of which there is a lot and a lot of tolerance from governments/regulators that might evaporate if they perceive football as just a business like any other.

[Grey Fox]

The players would have to choose between their lucrative contracts and bi-annual competitions. Doesn't seem like a tough choie.

South American players will have to choose between breaking their contracts and getting killed back home. Not a tough choice at all 

Can UEFA really control which player CONMEBOL lets members use on their National team?

[celedhring]

I always wondered how that works legally. I can just quit my job and go to a competitor or to a new industry. How come footballers can't just decide to quit. Draws mighty close to (uber well paid) indentured service with the tied in contracts.

My understanding is that no player really wants to challenge it (look what happened to Bosman after his ruling) so I don't think it's ever got in front of the courts but it's one of those things that probably isn't legal if it was properly challenged. The argument against it is basically just special pleading for football - of which there is a lot and a lot of tolerance from governments/regulators that might evaporate if they perceive football as just a business like any other.

They can buy out their contracts, it's just very rarely done because of what you say - a gentleman's agreement among clubs not to upset the apple cart.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webster_ruling

[FunkMonk]

https://twitter.com/FootballManager/status/1384080217401028610?s=19

[Tamas]

https://twitter.com/FootballManager/status/1384080217401028610?s=19

[FunkMonk]

The nice thing is those of us who have hundreds or thousands of hours in FM have something else to complain about other than the match engine and Brexit in future versions.