Football (Soccer) Thread

[Josephus]

So what's the deal with Liverpool? Were they just over-achieving pre-Covid? Or are they under-achieving now?

[Sheilbh]

So what's the deal with Liverpool? Were they just over-achieving pre-Covid? Or are they under-achieving now?

Maybe a bit of both. They were very good for a number of years and also very lucky with injuries. Now they have an insane number of injuries in the same position which would be a challenge for any team but I feel like there are also some bigger issues - the Aston Villa 7-2 happened before the injuries started, the front three weren't really performing as they have in the last few years (though Jota's a superb addition). I think they maybe needed to re-fresh a little bit more a little earlier.

And also I think Rory Smith's point about Klopp (and possibly other systems coaches) is true. He can't change his system because it's who he is (like Wenger, Poch etc) so when things start to create challenges like injuries or player sales Klopp can't change and can't really adjust, because his system is who he is as a coach (in my head the opposite to this are all Italian coaches ). So if those problems occur and pile-up, Klopp just puts out teams that are kind of limp, pale imitations of Klopp teams. But the flip side of that is that when he has resources and his players are fit and his team has been built well around him - you get a really good Klopp team.

I had a theory that the more system/less pragmatic/adaptable coaches would suffer with covid because there are just so many games so often. And maybe there is something to that looking at the top of the table in the Premier League, but I'm not sure

[Josephus]

It does beg the question why the front three arent' scoring anymore. They pointed out yesterday that Liverpool have only scored one game at home this year, and that was a penalty.

[Josquius]

Haven't seen many games this year. So purely guessing; could it be the trick to controlling their attack has been worked out?

This happened with Sheffield Utd too. Once everyone recognised some simple tricks for how to break down their defence and start scoring against them they were screwed.

[Sheilbh]

It does beg the question why the front three arent' scoring anymore. They pointed out yesterday that Liverpool have only scored one game at home this year, and that was a penalty.

I think the injuries do have an impact because Klopp's solution has been to move midfielders into defence, so every time he gets another injury in defence the midfield gets rejigged too and that will have an effect on the front three.

But it does feel like there's more to it. I think there's something to Tyr's point - and I think something similar was happening to their high line when clubs worked out how if you broke it, you could score as Villa did repeatedly (still my favourite game of the season ). I also just wonder if there's an element of fatigue both mentally and physically. They've been playing together in those roles for three years and maybe needed to be refreshed sooner. But also Klopp isn't big on rotation and never has been so they've played a lot of games in that time and now are in a season where there's a game every 3-4 days. Plus possibly recruitment's an issue - they don't necessarily have good enough back-up or young players to challenge, replace or rest them.

With the front three, it reminds me a little bit of Spurs. There was a demanding system and coach that has got a lot out of those players, but it does need fresh blood every now and then and they've maybe been a little slow to do that. Both teams got a lot of praise for keeping a core of players together who were ageing and coming good at the same time, but this is maybe a consequence of that?

[FunkMonk]

On the other side, Pep has a large squad and has rotated quite a bit. City don't play a super high intensity press and Pep still loves seeing 1000 passes a game so his players aren't exhausting themselves as much every game. City of course are coasting to the title.

It also helps to have infinite money so you can have 2 or 3 great options in each position, especially in a season where like you say there is a game every 3 days or so.

[The Larch]

Liverpool also lost van Dijk early in the season, and he's their key man in defence, so they must be really missing him.

On a different topic, UEFA's youtube channel has produced a series of shorts on "Football Ideologies" by country. They're like 11 minutes long and based on interviews. Some of them might be a bit enlightening.

Here's the one about England, for instance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hn22h6_ll4

There are also videos on Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal and the Netherlands. Don't know if they'll publish more, as I feel that France should be there too.

[Sheilbh]

On the other side, Pep has a large squad and has rotated quite a bit. City don't play a super high intensity press and Pep still loves seeing 1000 passes a game so his players aren't exhausting themselves as much every game. City of course are coasting to the title.

It also helps to have infinite money so you can have 2 or 3 great options in each position, especially in a season where like you say there is a game every 3 days or so.

Yeah absolutely. They basically have two teams that could win the league it's insane

Liverpool also lost van Dijk early in the season, and he's their key man in defence, so they must be really missing him.

Yeah - although that injury came after the 7-2 loss to Villa so I think there were cracks that we'd not seen in the last couple of years even when he was playing. And the really freaky thing for Liverpool isn't the number of injuries - which is high but lots of other teams have similar - but that they're all in the same position: van Dijk, Gomez, Matip, Fabinho (when playing centre back), Henderson (when playing centre back), Phillips. It's crazily unlucky and any team would really struggle with 6 injuries in the same position.

[Duque de Bragança]

On a different topic, UEFA's youtube channel has produced a series of shorts on "Football Ideologies" by country. They're like 11 minutes long and based on interviews. Some of them might be a bit enlightening.

Here's the one about England, for instance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hn22h6_ll4

There are also videos on Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal and the Netherlands. Don't know if they'll publish more, as I feel that France should be there too.

Interesting, obrigado.

[The Larch]

On a different topic, UEFA's youtube channel has produced a series of shorts on "Football Ideologies" by country. They're like 11 minutes long and based on interviews. Some of them might be a bit enlightening.

Here's the one about England, for instance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hn22h6_ll4

There are also videos on Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal and the Netherlands. Don't know if they'll publish more, as I feel that France should be there too.

Interesting, obrigado.

As you might imagine, the one on Portugal is quite Mourinho-centric. 

[Duque de Bragança]

On a different topic, UEFA's youtube channel has produced a series of shorts on "Football Ideologies" by country. They're like 11 minutes long and based on interviews. Some of them might be a bit enlightening.

Here's the one about England, for instance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hn22h6_ll4

There are also videos on Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal and the Netherlands. Don't know if they'll publish more, as I feel that France should be there too.

Interesting, obrigado.

As you might imagine, the one on Portugal is quite Mourinho-centric. 

They mention Vitor Frade, so they got the source of tactical periodization right, at least.

PS: big lulz would be invoking Helenio Herrera for France where he started his career, of catenaccio fame. 

[The Larch]

On a different topic, UEFA's youtube channel has produced a series of shorts on "Football Ideologies" by country. They're like 11 minutes long and based on interviews. Some of them might be a bit enlightening.

Here's the one about England, for instance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hn22h6_ll4

There are also videos on Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal and the Netherlands. Don't know if they'll publish more, as I feel that France should be there too.

Interesting, obrigado.

As you might imagine, the one on Portugal is quite Mourinho-centric. 

They mention Vitor Frade, so they got the source of tactical periodization right, at least.

Well, they interview the director of the coaching school named after him, so it's only fair. 

It was interesting to know how academic the background for many Portuguese coaches is, I was not aware of that.

[Duque de Bragança]

It was interesting to know how academic the background for many Portuguese coaches is, I was not aware of that.

Very relevant indeed.
Quite the opposite of most French coaches who are often former glorified physical training instructors.

[Josephus]

On the other side, Pep has a large squad and has rotated quite a bit. City don't play a super high intensity press and Pep still loves seeing 1000 passes a game so his players aren't exhausting themselves as much every game. City of course are coasting to the title.

It also helps to have infinite money so you can have 2 or 3 great options in each position, especially in a season where like you say there is a game every 3 days or so.

Yeah absolutely. They basically have two teams that could win the league it's insane

Liverpool also lost van Dijk early in the season, and he's their key man in defence, so they must be really missing him.

Yeah - although that injury came after the 7-2 loss to Villa so I think there were cracks that we'd not seen in the last couple of years even when he was playing. And the really freaky thing for Liverpool isn't the number of injuries - which is high but lots of other teams have similar - but that they're all in the same position: van Dijk, Gomez, Matip, Fabinho (when playing centre back), Henderson (when playing centre back), Phillips. It's crazily unlucky and any team would really struggle with 6 injuries in the same position.

The new guy, Kabak, is doubtful for Sunday

[Liep]

So Rangers are back? 20 points ahead 9 goal against in 32 games is pretty good even in the Scottish League.