Football (Soccer) Thread

[Threviel]

And that's the thing that makes Maradona so great. He was so good that he lifted Argentina and Napoli to glory almost by himself. Sure, good teams, but he was the clear difference.

Like you say, Barcelona without Messi would have been as almost good as Barcelona with Messi and would probably have won as much. (To the detriment of entertaining football everywhere)

Likewise Real and Ronaldo.

[Sheilbh]

I believe the reason pragmatism isn't so prevalent in football is because analytics haven't cracked the game yet. Yank sports are very easy to break down into definite play actions (a possession in basketball, a down in football, an at-bat in baseball) which then you can try to make more efficient, while football is far blurrier - only set pieces are like that and they are indeed the bread and butter of the Allardyces and Pulises of the world. Thus a college basketball coach can go "you all start shooting threes" and easily make the case how that wins games, while in football that's not really there.

I presume that the statheads will eventually crack football and ruin it for everyone like they have done with basketball.

Yes although the interesting thing is I don't think the statheads in football have necessarily solved working out the stats that mean if a team is playing well in the various different styles we see, which they need to do first. Which I think is part of why the stats don't provide an answer yet, because all these methods can work.

And in a way are Allardyce or Pulis really pragmatists? They have a very fixed idea of the way football should play. It reminds me of a Grace Robertson's point at the weekend when Villa were done to 10 men and Palace were still losing 3-0 "Maybe if Roy Hodgson was more pragmatic and didn't stick to his philosophy, he would've dominated this second half with a man up and got back into the game."

There's one English guy who is famous for being the first football statistician and his conclusion was something like the more passes there are the less likely it is to end in a goal (this was in the 70s or 80s) which definitely had an influence on a number of English teams at the time. But, I can't remember, he'd basically done stats wrong

As a manager Allardyce is very good indeed.

As an Everton fan I'd strongly disgree with this - he's history's greatest monster

And I listened to an interesting podcast that discussed quality vs quantity. Football is one of those sports where the worst players quality is more important than the best. So instead of buying Messi for billions it would have more effect to replace the five worst players on the team. The galacticos would be a good example of that theory, some of the world's absolutely best players and then the rest a second rate junior team, did not end super well.

Yes, I think that's the theory of Billy Beane from Moneyball as well. You spend the money improving your weakest link because the return on that is far higher than signing a superstar in a position where you already have quality.

[Josquius]

Isn't FC Midtylands success built on analytics?

[Liep]

Isn't FC Midtylands success built on analytics?

I think the story here is that Midtjylland has a great academy and a solid budget developing players and selling them on. That's why it was a surprise that they signed Sisto from Celta.

How they find the talent for the academy I don't know.

[Admiral Yi]

Yes, I think that's the theory of Billy Beane from Moneyball as well. You spend the money improving your weakest link because the return on that is far higher than signing a superstar in a position where you already have quality.

What I got from Moneyball is you shouldn't waste money on flashy stats like home runs and even RBIs.

[Liep]

I knew he'd miss that.

[celedhring]

That was bound to happen. 

Somebody please find a vaccine for *this* malaise.  I'll give my firstborn to AstraZeneca or Moderna.

[Josquius]

It's truly mad how much corona is messing up the fixture list in league 1. Sunderland were forced to play a game a few weeks back sans most of the first team and then suspended 4 games.
Due to play the first game of the holidays, normally a packed time, tomorrow....and then another corona suspended game.
Interesting the premier league isn't getting this

[Duque de Bragança]

https://utdreport.co.uk/2020/12/19/danish-university-professor-andreas-beck-holm-has-reports-fa-to-kick-it-out-for-cultural-racism-against-cavani/

It has been almost three weeks since Manchester United's emphatic comeback victory over Southampton, but it still remains to be seen whether striker Edinson Cavani is served with a suspension for his social media post from the triumphs aftermath.

The post in question is of course the famous Instagram story that the Uruguayan posted, in his native tongue, thanking his friend for the congratulations which followed his fantastic substitute appearance that propelled the Reds to victory. The message read, "Gracias negrito" along with the handshake emoji.

Not much was made of the post as in South America, Cavani's message is one that shows affection to another person. But in England, the FA has went on to open a case against the forward in suspicion of racist connotations.

United have since released a statement in defense of Cavani which read: "It is clear to us that there was absolutely no malicious intent behind Edinson's message and he deleted it as soon as he was informed that it could be misconstrued.

"Edinson has issued an apology for any unintentional offense caused. Manchester United and all of our players are fully committed to the fight against racism."

The club's and Cavani's statements were both in line with the popular belief that Cavani's actions did not involve racist behavior. But, the FA's case has remained open and the striker could face a multiple game suspension in the new year as a result.

This apparent disregard for cultural differences has led a Danish university professor, Andreas Beck Holm, to report the FA to KickItOut for "cultural racism" against Cavani.

"The claim that I want to make is that while Cavani's words are not racist, the decision to indict him is. Specifically, it is a case of cultural racism that is closely connected with ethnocentrism," Holm's report read.

Holm's report was based on three main points: Cavani's message was a greeting to a friend, the word "negrito" in South America is affectionate, not racist, and the fact that Cavani deleted the post as soon as he was alerted that his greeting might get misunderstood in order not to cause any harm.

"Edinson Cavani is a foreign worker who is being punished for his inadequate mastery of the English language and for his equally limited understanding of British social rules," Holm continued. "In fact, he is being punished for not obeying these codes with a foreigner. This is clearly an example of discrimination based on a person's culture."

The FA and KickItOut have both been doing great work in order to fight racism on and off the British football pitches, but as per Holm's complaint, it does seem as though punishing Cavani for a message of affection to a fellow country man is an example of fighting the wrong fight.

"The charge put forward by the FA is based on several assumptions that are obviously ethnocentric," said Holm. "In short, the FA's indictment is nothing short of reprehensible by the very same standards the organization sanctimoniously claims to uphold."

Wokery backfire? Thinly veiled discriminatory ethnocentrism?

[FunkMonk]

Chelsea look the way Arsenal looked 2 weeks ago 

Thankfully Arsenal reclaimed a bit of confidence and look decent again. But will Chels ?

[Sheilbh]

Chelsea look the way Arsenal looked 2 weeks ago 

Thankfully Arsenal reclaimed a bit of confidence and look decent again. But will Chels ?

Apparently assessing Lampard's future tomorrow

[FunkMonk]

Chelsea look the way Arsenal looked 2 weeks ago 

Thankfully Arsenal reclaimed a bit of confidence and look decent again. But will Chels ?

Apparently assessing Lampard's future tomorrow

Frank needs a Christmas miracle the way Arteta got one, but he can't wait a year for Christmas to come round again 

Who is available for Roman to bring in mid-season?

[Admiral Yi]

woof

[FunkMonk]

Actually just remembered Tuchel got sacked by PSG like a week ago so I guess he's just waiting for Roman's call. 

[FunkMonk]

Reports are that Özil may be moving from my beloved Arsenal to my local scrub team, DC United. 

https://www.football.london/arsenal-fc/news/exclusive-mesut-ozil-negotiations-mls-19569935