Football (Soccer) Thread

[Valmy]

The obvious difference being that American pro leagues have a top down approach - you have the top tier (NFL, MLB, etc.) and the rest serve to feed those teams with players.

In European football, it's a bottom up approach where this is played from a very basic grassroots level with every team having the (theoretical) chance to make it to the top floor if they're just good enough.

I mean the idea that some tiny town's football team could reach the NFL while the New York Giants are some minor league team is just not something the US sports business wants to get involved in. They get annoyed as it is when some "small market" team like Detroit or Kansas City wins things. They would burn everything down if the Hagerstown Marylanders, or whomever, suddenly found themselves in the big leagues.

[Sheilbh]

The obvious difference being that American pro leagues have a top down approach - you have the top tier (NFL, MLB, etc.) and the rest serve to feed those teams with players.

In European football, it's a bottom up approach where this is played from a very basic grassroots level with every team having the (theoretical) chance to make it to the top floor if they're just good enough.

Although that's a factor of the historical origins of football leagues. It feels like a European "superleague" is inevitable at some point in  the next few years

[Sheilbh]

I mean the idea that some tiny town's football team could reach the NFL while the New York Giants are some minor league team is just not something the US sports business wants to get involved in. They get annoyed as it is when some "small market" team like Detroit or Kansas City wins things. They would burn everything down if the Hagerstown Marylanders, or whomever, suddenly found themselves in the big leagues.

Well the same sort of happened here.

Everyone loved Leicester but after that all of the "big" teams invested massiverly because they never want that to happen again.

[Admiral Yi]

You can't do a player draft with relegation.

[Syt]

I mean the idea that some tiny town's football team could reach the NFL while the New York Giants are some minor league team is just not something the US sports business wants to get involved in. They get annoyed as it is when some "small market" team like Detroit or Kansas City wins things. They would burn everything down if the Hagerstown Marylanders, or whomever, suddenly found themselves in the big leagues.

Understandable. But there were times when  Berlin was without a top tier club, and currently both clubs of Germany's second largest city Hamburg are in the second tier. And people accept it, because that's how it's always been.

There was quite a bit resentment when Red Bull took over a club in Leipzig and instead of creating a proper grassroots club and work their way up, they mostly dumped money into the club and set up the club rules in a way that the average Joe's who are members in traditional clubs were kept outside.

In the other hand  it would be inconceivable for a European club to move half way across the country to a different city.

[Sheilbh]

See: MK Dons

And they only moved about 50 miles

[Josquius]

Never mind Franchise FC. You get enough controversy when teams move out of their old stadiums in town centres to outside the boundaries of the town.


Teams with large catchment areas tend to make more money so tend to do better. I don't think you'd have to worry about New York dying. More of a concern is you get a dozen teams in the top flight  all from New York.
On the other hand it's the beauty of the system that in theory Hicksville Utd could end up at the top of the game.
They won't.
But in theory.

In the US isnt there a cup competition open to non mls teams? 

[frunk]

In the other hand  it would be inconceivable for a European club to move half way across the country to a different city.

Definitely one of the stupid things about American professional sports.  I think the franchise should be movable, but the name, records and history of the team should stay with the city.  That's happened a couple of times, but I wish it was standard.  Utah Jazz is dumb.  LV Raiders is dumb.  Arizona Cardinals is dumb.

[Admiral Yi]

Utah Jazz is the dumbest ever.  Mormons don't have rhythm.

[Valmy]

In the US isnt there a cup competition open to non mls teams? 

Yes. Theoretically some local yokels could go all the way to the CONCACAF club champioship.

[dps]

You can't do a player draft with relegation.

Sure you could, but you'd have to design a system whereby teams outside of the top leagues could draft players.

In fact, in baseball it was once the case that minor league teams could theoretically draft players, but then around 1990 when a minor league team did draft a player, the rules were quickly changed before the next draft.

[The Larch]

Get rid of drafts as well. 

[Admiral Yi]

Sure you could, but you'd have to design a system whereby teams outside of the top leagues could draft players.

In fact, in baseball it was once the case that minor league teams could theoretically draft players, but then around 1990 when a minor league team did draft a player, the rules were quickly changed before the next draft.

What could the the Sioux City Hedgehogs, with a payroll of $50/game per player plus a Denny's meal voucher, do with the #1 overall pick?  They could sell the pick to another team, but then we'd have a proliferation of teams that exist solely to profit by gaming the system.

[The Larch]

Now a bit more seriously, the whole debate on how the MLS should be organized is a result of tension between two models, the "American" (so to speak) and the "ROTW" (or maybe shall we say European in this case?).

The American model has many features that are exclusive to them and absent from ROTW leagues, such as player drafts, salary caps, no relegation, teams as franchises, and so on. Football is a global sport, and the MLS has the option of integrating itself in the wider ecosystem of football leagues from the ROTW, but some of these "American" features could be an obstacle.

In other sports it's not an issue, the NBA is so far ahead of other basketball leagues that it can play by its own rules and others will adapt to them, and the NFL and MLB might as well be the only leagues in the world that matter for their respective sports, and interaction with foreign actors is unlikely or irrelevant (don't know how baseball teams get their Latin American players, though, maybe you could enlighten me there). In football, though, it's a very different case, as the MLS is at best a second-third tier league at the global level, although with amazing potential.

So, the MLS could try to drop some of these "American" features in order to integrate itself better with the global sport, or isolate itself and remain marginal at the global level. Which strategy will be better for its own development is for the MLS to decide and for the future to answer.

[FunkMonk]

VAR keeps being confusing and utterly arbitrary. You can apparently VAR check a (very) small free kick and then cancel a clear penalty and a doubtful red card.

VAR as is it practiced in the European leagues right now is fucking garbage.